Author Topic: Melee vs Rifle damage as intended?.  (Read 343 times)

Dreez

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Melee vs Rifle damage as intended?.
« on: May 30, 2017; 08:32 PM »

I'm not sure if this is the way it was intended, but currently i feel like there's a HUGE differense
in how these 2 damages are applied and effective in combat.  Currently i play an engineer using
pretty much maxed out Exothermic Rifle Item level 51 with a dps of ~410 Fire, and yet i have to literally
fire "hundreds" of bullets to kill enemies that has a normal healthpool on Nightmare.

And at the same time i watch both BM's and Guardians 1-2shot enemies that i have to put 100 rounds
into to kill.  My total Shieldpenetration is ~100% and yet, compared to Melee, it doesn't seem like
my shield-penetration is anywhere near as effective.

Whenever i see a BM or Guardian with +50% shieldpen fight an enemy, they literally die instantly
because it seems that SO much damage goes straight through their shields.
For example, the Fury's that has superhigh shields and almost no hitpoints, a BM or Guardian with
a decent shieldpen will kill them in 1-2 swings with a good sword,  yet a class using a rifle will
have to use up the national guard's ammunition depot to kill them, even with shieldpen.

I know there are issues with the dps not properly displaying on rifles, but when a melee class
can just run up and 2shot anything that isn't a boss, while it takes a ranged class a few seconds,
guess which one people are going to roll for Endgame.

Given that a Strikerbuild can kill an army of enemies, but that will fall short in effectiveness on endgame
and with more people in group.  I've teamed up with enough BM's and Guardians on my Engieer to
see that my only place in a group currently, is because of the Haste-bots.

Even if i pre-emptively throw a beacon down, a good BM or Guardian will kill everything before
the beacon activates the strike. And Strikers only become a viable build at level 40, due to synergi requirement.

So yes, it's early Alpha and we know alot of abilities and tooltips aren't working as intended atm,
so this might need some attention as well... or we might be seing a server with only BM's and Guardians.

Bryan

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Re: Melee vs Rifle damage as intended?.
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2017; 09:07 PM »
Moved :)

Now, as far as melee damage is concerned, the buff seems to have been intentional:

"The Blademaster class has been significantly rebalanced with changes to almost every skill. Overall, they should do more damage and have many more options than before. Some of the highlights include Strength now stacking on top of the skill percent bonuses..."

The Strength bonus alone might be part of what you observe. Neither the swords' or weapons' base damage seems to have changed (not noticably anyway), so if we're comparing plain autofire VS plain autoattack that's the only variable I see in place that may tip the scales.

Then, of course, observations depend on build and gear. Certain skills, critcapped weapons, CDB amount, everything can tip the scales. For instance, many MMs seem to ignore Master Sniper, even though it's the only way to critcap certain weapons.

I can't speak for Engineers, as they're in a very tough spot damage-wise. The intended direction for the class seems to have been a supportive one, and for the moment that's where they're stuck.

I'm not trying to invalidate your observations, mind you. I just want to identify the exact problem, before suggesting possible fixes for it.

Lastly, on endgame performance, I can't say I predict the same. Going strictly by max potential, and if things are left as they are, I predict it'll go like this:

1) Gundians. Immortals with shrapnel.
2) MMs/BMs. Awesome glass cannons.
3) Evos. Versatile farmers, powerful enough.
4) Engies. Haste/Beacon slaves.
5) Guardians. Not many encounters need immortal tanks, so no real reason not to be Gundians.
6) Summoners. Lords of the fragile flies.

The BM/MM comparison will likely earn me some fiery retorts, but I firmly believe they're roughly equal damage-dealers. For the sake of transparency, these are my later test runs with both.


Both have roughly the same gear (ie TC with +AA/+ACC) and the traditional ele/CCM setup on weapons. The major difference lies only in the BM using the TC Grimaces, while the MM uses plain Hus.
"Dream big and crash often"
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List of Global class guides.
The above guides may be obsolete for vanilla SP, but they may still hold true to an extent for some mods and 2038.

Omerta

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Re: Melee vs Rifle damage as intended?.
« Reply #2 on: Jun 01, 2017; 06:36 AM »
Now, as far as melee damage is concerned, the buff seems to have been intentional:

"The Blademaster class has been significantly rebalanced with changes to almost every skill. Overall, they should do more damage and have many more options than before. Some of the highlights include Strength now stacking on top of the skill percent bonuses..."
...

Intentional rebalance, but probably not nearly complete :)

Bryan

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Re: Melee vs Rifle damage as intended?.
« Reply #3 on: Jun 01, 2017; 06:48 AM »
Now, as far as melee damage is concerned, the buff seems to have been intentional:

"The Blademaster class has been significantly rebalanced with changes to almost every skill. Overall, they should do more damage and have many more options than before. Some of the highlights include Strength now stacking on top of the skill percent bonuses..."
...

Intentional rebalance, but probably not nearly complete :)
Oh certainly :) A TC is incomplete by nature, no doubt about it.
Just trying to separate intended from unintended behaviors, as one might even mistake, say, the STR bonus for a bug. People would consider Strikes "bugged" all the time, for instance.
"Dream big and crash often"
-Omerta

List of Global class guides.
The above guides may be obsolete for vanilla SP, but they may still hold true to an extent for some mods and 2038.