Author Topic: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!  (Read 9488 times)

Butsutekkai

  • Founder
  • Named
  • **
  • Posts: 322
  • Karma: 4
Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
« Reply #15 on: Jan 06, 2017; 10:14 AM »
Ok that's what i wanted to hear and it's awesome !
Zeel - 55/50 Evoker                     >
Nx03-Hogire - 55/50 Striker engi >
KrameRr - 55/50 Marksman         >
   All retired :(

BlueSunshine

  • Nameless
  • *
  • Posts: 88
  • Karma: 9
Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
« Reply #16 on: Jan 06, 2017; 05:39 PM »
Further thoughts of a more frivolous nature ;D
Will we have the "costume" slots active as in Global? If so I would love to see an option to have costume active in station and armour when in battle action.
Personally I would prefer no attributes on these items so that it is purely a cosmetic choice which you use. Also with the dye kits, I would prefer them to be stat free for the same reason. Use ring/necklace slot for skill/attribute options imho.

I should add these would be the last things of all to spend any effort on...
« Last Edit: Jan 06, 2017; 05:51 PM by BlueSunshine »
"Players only love you when they're playing"

BlueSunshine 8)

hildos

  • Founder
  • Named
  • **
  • Posts: 141
  • Karma: 3
Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
« Reply #17 on: Jan 06, 2017; 07:37 PM »
What I realy want to see online?  Nagahaku mod ofc  :D

More seriously (I'm assuming it's not possible, at all), maybe I can help by telling what I hate in Hellgate London:

1: Side quests:  in HGL, they are incredibly boring and lame, and we have to do those twice to finaly get all the extra attrib points.

2: inventory is realy small and items size realy big. It's frustrating to make PRDs to check/sell/dismantle items several times on the same run. The "wow inventory" option would be great for that reason.

3:Skills are realy unbalanced. Some are insanly good (DPS), others are just a no way to go. For example, On HGL, all vokers were Tempest-Arc legion- skull splitter (sometimes). In HGG, all were Flameshard cause of the nerf of elec lightning. Marksmen were all multishot..etc. What I like the most in Naga mod, is that it increases diversity by boosting skills underestimated (BM's Sword Typhoon= OMG!, for exemple). I wish to see more diversity in 2038.

4: Templars are underpowered compare to other classes, spacialy on group. DPS is realy hard to increase after a certain limit on a BM, and immortality should not come with "no damage" on guardian. Multi auras is a must to help reducing this gap beetween templar and other classes, imo.

Hope it helps.
Hildos: lvl 60 skullspliter evoker. Naga 3.0b

Maurice lvl60 Nova marksman. Naga 3.0b

Justin Bridou lvl60 Gundian blademaster Naga 3.0b

Krobill lvl 60 Guardian Naga 3.0b

All Elite-Nightmare-Crazy Slayer (give us Hell mode!)

Bryan

  • Tactical Happenstance
  • Administrator
  • Great Eye / First
  • ***
  • Posts: 2838
  • Karma: 53
Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
« Reply #18 on: Jan 06, 2017; 10:16 PM »
Further thoughts of a more frivolous nature ;D
Will we have the "costume" slots active as in Global? If so I would love to see an option to have costume active in station and armour when in battle action.
Personally I would prefer no attributes on these items so that it is purely a cosmetic choice which you use. Also with the dye kits, I would prefer them to be stat free for the same reason. Use ring/necklace slot for skill/attribute options imho.

I should add these would be the last things of all to spend any effort on...

In its current state,2038 only has a dye kit slot and a ring slot. Costumes are a wish of mine as well,but frankly they haven't even entered the discussion table yet due to the whole team's sheer workload towards a stable game.

I cannot say if the dye kits will be stripped of stats,but I doubt it. I can say,though,that the Abyss rings are fully functional already and should be quite an asset ;)

What I realy want to see online?  Nagahaku mod ofc  :D

More seriously (I'm assuming it's not possible, at all), maybe I can help by telling what I hate in Hellgate London:

1: Side quests:  in HGL, they are incredibly boring and lame, and we have to do those twice to finaly get all the extra attrib points.

2: inventory is realy small and items size realy big. It's frustrating to make PRDs to check/sell/dismantle items several times on the same run. The "wow inventory" option would be great for that reason.

3:Skills are realy unbalanced. Some are insanly good (DPS), others are just a no way to go. For example, On HGL, all vokers were Tempest-Arc legion- skull splitter (sometimes). In HGG, all were Flameshard cause of the nerf of elec lightning. Marksmen were all multishot..etc. What I like the most in Naga mod, is that it increases diversity by boosting skills underestimated (BM's Sword Typhoon= OMG!, for exemple). I wish to see more diversity in 2038.

4: Templars are underpowered compare to other classes, spacialy on group. DPS is realy hard to increase after a certain limit on a BM, and immortality should not come with "no damage" on guardian. Multi auras is a must to help reducing this gap beetween templar and other classes, imo.

Hope it helps.

I cannot comment on side quests and inventory,for the reasons mentioned above. I can discuss skills,however.

For one,sadly I don't think there will ever be absolute skill balance. Some builds,some skill&gear combinations,some approaches to damage-dealing or damage mitigation will always be more efficient than others.
What I can say without a doubt though is,2038 will most likely have a very satisfactory skill and class balance.

The Evoker you mention,for instance,doesn't look like a class that will have an absolute do-or-bust build. Flameshards will still shine,but new gear and skill tweaks also make other skills viable. Demonspine looks splendid,and so do Tempest,Skullsplitter and Spectral Serpents,each for their own purpose. Hellfire and Swarm both seem fantastic,particularly with new Glyphs designed around supporting AoEs. With the current power costs and gear,I dare say even Spectral Lash may be made viable by those determined to make it so.

As for Templars,I can say without a doubt that this will not be the case. As I also mentioned on Discord,BMs look so insanely powerful that they may very well challenge or surpass MMs and Evokers.
Just to give you an idea:

-Str bonuses are calculated before skill damage multipliers,and presumably also before cdb.
-Power costs are decreased for most skills.
-Skills such as Sword Typhoon have been revamped to make them much more dangerous.
-SoJ in particular is borderline broken. In earlier versions of HG,each swing would deal -35% damage. The current SoJ deals +103% per swing,on top of str bonuses,+ele %s and cdb. I cannot begin to describe how much of a damage boost this is in action.

So no worries,Templars will shine again ;)
« Last Edit: Jan 07, 2017; 03:40 PM by Bryan »
"Dream big and crash often"
-Omerta

List of Global class guides.
The above guides may be obsolete for vanilla SP, but they may still hold true to an extent for some mods and 2038.

hildos

  • Founder
  • Named
  • **
  • Posts: 141
  • Karma: 3
Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
« Reply #19 on: Jan 07, 2017; 07:34 AM »
"-Str bonuses are calculated before skill damage multipliers,and presumably also before cdb.
-Power costs are decreased for most skills.
-Skills such as Sword Typhoon have been revamped to make them much more dangerous.
-SoJ in particular is borderline broken. In earlier versions of HG,each swing would deal -35% damage per swing. The current SoJ deals +103% per swing,on top of str bonuses,+ele %s and cdb."

 :o, OH MY GOD!

MissPeel, here we go again! That surpasses all my dreams. I WANT TO PLAY THIS GAME!!!!!!
Hildos: lvl 60 skullspliter evoker. Naga 3.0b

Maurice lvl60 Nova marksman. Naga 3.0b

Justin Bridou lvl60 Gundian blademaster Naga 3.0b

Krobill lvl 60 Guardian Naga 3.0b

All Elite-Nightmare-Crazy Slayer (give us Hell mode!)

Butsutekkai

  • Founder
  • Named
  • **
  • Posts: 322
  • Karma: 4
Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
« Reply #20 on: Jan 07, 2017; 02:15 PM »
Ahah Hildos will now have wet dreams until release :p

I agree that inventory in a loot game should always be HUGE. At high lvl, we also have to carry with us the small things that will eventually go inside the inventory anyway and that reduces the space for fresh loots even further. It's a tedious and old limits that don't need to be carried through time. I really hope you can find a solution for this, maybe by using the extra cash shop bags T3 implemented ?

On the skill balance matter, will it be "balanced" around crits like HGG or will we have more freedom ? I hope it's the latter as i'm more than tired of games where crit is the only way to scale up DD.
Zeel - 55/50 Evoker                     >
Nx03-Hogire - 55/50 Striker engi >
KrameRr - 55/50 Marksman         >
   All retired :(

Bryan

  • Tactical Happenstance
  • Administrator
  • Great Eye / First
  • ***
  • Posts: 2838
  • Karma: 53
Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
« Reply #21 on: Jan 07, 2017; 03:56 PM »
I agree that inventory in a loot game should always be HUGE. At high lvl, we also have to carry with us the small things that will eventually go inside the inventory anyway and that reduces the space for fresh loots even further. It's a tedious and old limits that don't need to be carried through time. I really hope you can find a solution for this, maybe by using the extra cash shop bags T3 implemented ?

On the skill balance matter, will it be "balanced" around crits like HGG or will we have more freedom ? I hope it's the latter as i'm more than tired of games where crit is the only way to scale up DD.

Bags are actually a great idea! If they can be retrofitted,they can probably be added as drops or quest rewards. Of course,if not,the inventory itself shouldn't be hard to expand.

On skills,I am really hoping 2038 can distance itself from the crit-or-bust route. Unfortunately,the more I explore,the more I see some hindrances:

-All the Abyss sets have base crit on them,some in multiple/all pieces.
-Base crit,ccm and cdb values are all much higher than Global. I dare say,they're probably double.
-Many skills seem to push classes towards crits. MMs and BMs in particular seem to have been intended to focus on crits.

I'm not sure how this can be tweaked to make other setups equally viable. At the very least,BMs and MMs seem likely to have a solid crit foundation and room for extras,such as,say,ignite/phase/etc.
It's too much to make sense of on paper,so I'm hoping the beta will be enlightening :)
"Dream big and crash often"
-Omerta

List of Global class guides.
The above guides may be obsolete for vanilla SP, but they may still hold true to an extent for some mods and 2038.

Blackwoodforest

  • Nameless
  • *
  • Posts: 27
  • Karma: 0
Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
« Reply #22 on: Jan 16, 2017; 09:06 AM »
Summoner:

I´d love to have some kind of possibility to "auto cast" an elemental, pet, etc. when they die. A little switch besides the skill to make it autocast would be a great benefit. What are you thinking?

Bryan

  • Tactical Happenstance
  • Administrator
  • Great Eye / First
  • ***
  • Posts: 2838
  • Karma: 53
Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
« Reply #23 on: Jan 16, 2017; 10:49 AM »
Summoner:

I´d love to have some kind of possibility to "auto cast" an elemental, pet, etc. when they die. A little switch besides the skill to make it autocast would be a great benefit. What are you thinking?

Sounds good. I'm not sure if it's possible,or who the primary targets would be (as main minions have a CD I'm guessing it'd be Elementals) but it sounds like a good option to have.
"Dream big and crash often"
-Omerta

List of Global class guides.
The above guides may be obsolete for vanilla SP, but they may still hold true to an extent for some mods and 2038.

Blackwoodforest

  • Nameless
  • *
  • Posts: 27
  • Karma: 0
Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
« Reply #24 on: Jan 16, 2017; 11:36 AM »
The same would work on the engineer with the drones of course!

Bryan

  • Tactical Happenstance
  • Administrator
  • Great Eye / First
  • ***
  • Posts: 2838
  • Karma: 53
Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
« Reply #25 on: Jan 16, 2017; 11:25 PM »
The same would work on the engineer with the drones of course!

Well given that the Drone also has a CD,I assume it'd be easier to use an autocast feature on the bots. Would also make for a very easy way to use the bot self-destruct commands more efficiently.

That aside,here's a suggestion of my own for future consideration.

-Slightly/considerably/x9001 increase mob density in Stonehenge. Not only will this reestablish SH as the exp area it was in Global,but it would also somewhat help with the sudden level jumps while motivating people to visit the "new" area often.
"Dream big and crash often"
-Omerta

List of Global class guides.
The above guides may be obsolete for vanilla SP, but they may still hold true to an extent for some mods and 2038.

Blackwoodforest

  • Nameless
  • *
  • Posts: 27
  • Karma: 0
Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
« Reply #26 on: Jan 17, 2017; 06:09 AM »
Shame on me, of course the bots, thats what I ment. Course not the drone. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Butsutekkai

  • Founder
  • Named
  • **
  • Posts: 322
  • Karma: 4
Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
« Reply #27 on: Jan 17, 2017; 08:30 AM »

[/quote]



-Slightly/considerably/x9001 increase mob density in Stonehenge. Not only will this reestablish SH as the exp area it was in Global,but it would also somewhat help with the sudden level jumps while motivating people to visit the "new" area often.
[/quote]

I'm not sure sh is the best place to do that. In global, it was a matter of loading times more than gameplay to level grind. Enter => nuke the whole 3 to 7 rooms at once with a strike with +3 billion radius => go out => kick peaople with slow loading times that prevent you from going fast => repeat.

While i really hope the radius "bug" could stay like in HGG, i would prefer bigger areas for levelling as we would spend more time killing stuff than loading the same area. What about increasing the xp/density in the zones that give the orbs you need to fight Moloch ? People would grind there and still be involved in some way as they would want to kill the boss for some reward.
Zeel - 55/50 Evoker                     >
Nx03-Hogire - 55/50 Striker engi >
KrameRr - 55/50 Marksman         >
   All retired :(

Wolfilein

  • Founder
  • Nameless
  • *
  • Posts: 90
  • Karma: 6
  • Rarwwww
    • TDE - The Dark Evolution - TDE
Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
« Reply #28 on: Jan 17, 2017; 08:57 AM »
I like most of the ideas and suggestions so far.

I would love to see the following changes/implimentations:

- Make elements more usefull/powerfull
 
- Make skills/builds that focus on Shield/Energyshield more impactfull.
   Maybe more and better interactions with elemetal-effects. This could improve the value of       
   Shieldpenetration.

- Tone down crit chance/multi (should be still viable but very hard to reach cap)
   Global had lower values compared to HG:L, but it had more Item slots to boost crit.
   Maybe cap crit-multi or impliment crit-resist-mod for mobs.

- Impliment some of the Pay-features from global like Inventory-bags, Dismantlers, etc.

- additional Skillpoints per drop and/or questreward. I loved the amount of skillpoints in global.
  (could have used even more for my char +20 wasn't enough^^)

- An additional difficulty or expert-mode to provide a Challange for all the min-maxing freaks out there.
  ( like base defense wich was not intentional but bugged^^)

I have so much ideas... but i will wait until i get a chance to test the London2038 version. Maybe after testing i will create some wall-of-text about portential changes and balancing.
Wolfilein

InstantDeath - 55/50 - Crit-Markswoman

Alternalo

  • Named
  • **
  • Posts: 119
  • Karma: 4
Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
« Reply #29 on: Jan 17, 2017; 09:57 AM »
I'll update this if something else come in my mind...

Blademaster

Sword of Reckoning and Sword of Authority
Both skills are under performing compared to Sword of Justice (even the not OP base version) or even Whirlwind.
You could easily double Sword of Reckoning's damage and even then it will be lower overall dps than SoJ (if you calculate with crit chance/damage factor)
Sword of Authority should have a high inherited ignite chance to make it what FSS probably meant to do with this one: a boss killer.

Charge cooldown should be lowered to 5 sec.

Crosscutter should pierce enemies in line like Demonspine. Reduce the cooldown to 2 sec.
Reduce Sword Typhoon's cooldown to 5 sec, or make every point invested in Crosscutter reduce the cooldown by 1 sec.

Whirlwind
Make it's base running speed faster, and make it last longer. You can barely hit a few mobs with this now.
Synergy: 15% run speed per Sword of Justice rank
Synergy: 5% extra damage per Sweeping Strike rank


Marksman
Rapid Fire
This skill should be an active channeling skill, and work like Firestorm on Evoker. Controlled burst should lower the power consumption per sec.


Summoner
Concentrate Elemental skill shall return in this version too. It wors like Concentrate Damage on Evoker (cancel if you move), but it's purpose to summon all elemental of each type with a single cast. This was a summoner perk, granted at lvl1, no way to upgrade it.

Elemental Nova
Each rank should add ~5% splash radius

Meat Shield
Increase the base taunt strength of this skill and add 15% taunt radius per point invested, otherwise this skill will remain a 1 point wonder (i think noone is interested on extra damage on a Carnagor, when you have 30 other elementals summoned, each dealing like twice damage as your Carnagor).

Word of Fear
This is a very underused skill (does anyone even using it?), but it's fear strength is also very weak.


Evoker
Firestorm
Decrease spread, increase the distance to 15m

Flameshards
Decrease spread by 33%, make it damage on contact, not on fuse.

Hellfire
Reduce the delay between cast and impact to 2 sec.
5% splash radius per rank

Demonspine, Venomous Spirit
Extra projectiles with every 4 points invested.

Bone Shards
Increase base damage, adds 1 fragment to Skullsplitter per rank.

Skullsplitter
Please make the initial projectile also explode upon contact with enemies. Currently it's just disappear without any noticeable damage. The reason is the unnecessary amount of precision required for this skill to use properly compared to any other skill.

Arc Legion
Reduce the time this skill needs to build up.

Lightning Field
Synergy: 8% damage per Arc Legion rank
Synergy: 15% duration per Tempest rank

Swarm
Increase it's base damage, it's very weak compared to any other field spells.

Summon Ember
1 extra projectile per rank

Spectral Bolt
If you could make this spells projectile go in less random directions with earlier split...

Spectral Lash
Make it's behavior exactly like Drain Power. One initial beam, which splits into multiple ones when more enemies around, also make sure it doesn't stops channeling when you kill something or it's getting out of focus.

Spectral Lash Mastery
In addition to the basic explosion bonus
5% Spectral Bolt damage per rank
5% Spectral Lash damage per rank

Spectral Serpents
Please move this spell under Spectral Curse
I am ok if this skill stays where it is now, if the skills above getting some buff like i've described. We need a playable spectral build.

Concentrate Damage
Automatically activateing if you doesn't move for 3 sec. Cancels on move like before.


Engineer
Molotov Assault
This skill is barely do any damage in the alpha version compared to vanilla. Please buff it's damage.

Armor Retrofit
Please enable Gloves and Helmet slots for drone if it's possible. The reason behind this, is that drone's damage if fine in normal and nightmare but if you want to implement hell, pure damage won't be enough and everyone will drop drone, and will go with strikes and full crit weapons instead. If you have 2 additional armor slots you could improve it's critical chance. If this is too difficult to progam alternatively i could suggest that Gun Retrofit should give your drone 1% critical chance per skill rank.

Shield Generator Retrofit
This skill should be a passive bonus for Medpak Retrofit

Nanobots
Should target enemies a lot more often. Currently Bomber Bot is a way better option than this, not to mention that this skill is at the very bottom of the Inhibitor Bots tree, which means 9 additional skill point spent compared to Bomber Bot. I strongly suggest you to move this skill from this tree below Bomber Bot.

« Last Edit: Mar 11, 2017; 02:19 PM by Alternalo »
"Twelve galaxies, and all coming at me!"