Hellgate Revival :: Forums

Hellgate: London => London 2038 => Topic started by: Bryan on Jan 04, 2017; 03:54 AM

Title: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Bryan on Jan 04, 2017; 03:54 AM
Heya :)

As the progress on London 2038 maintains a steady pace,we want to hear the players' thoughts and suggestions on skill/class/general changes. Anything goes,so share your deepest desires ;)


Kindly note:

Title: Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
Post by: Omerta on Jan 04, 2017; 04:24 AM
I personally think that the sniper spec/weapons for Marksman should be revamped so it is actually viable endgame. It is such a cool concept to have a sniper in an ARPG, but it falls short.
Title: Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
Post by: BlueSunshine on Jan 04, 2017; 02:25 PM
Well as you asked Bryan ;)

1: Remove loopholes such as rerolling vendors, London Bridge resets, etc. Ideally block all hacks mmbbq etc.
2: Try to remove temptation for repetitive straight to boss, reset runs by adding a counter which ups drop from bosses based on number of kills in the run in areas. Reward players for using more of the game content once at endgame stage.
3: Adjust boss drops to balance added time to reach from 1&2.
4: Add a drop for helping use nanoforge and augmented more effectively. Not too easy but at least possible to achieve ideal outputs eventually.
5: Make elemental effects worthwhile option and balance critical so it is not the only route to go.
6: I agree with Omerta, let's see if Sniper can be made to work better.
7: Try to limit need for endless SH level grinding. Make it always better to play the game than not when possible.

I am not sure what changes could be brought through from the single player mode as I have not tried them but should be lots of ideas there I guess. Multiplayer should be all about team play and should be almost impossible to play solo at hardest level.
Anyway that is all for now, good luck with the project and just getting a working game up and running will be a great achievement. It would be awesome though if you could take Hellgate forward in the way Grinding Gear have renewed Diablo2.
Title: Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
Post by: Bryan on Jan 04, 2017; 02:52 PM
@BlueSunshine Thanks for the suggestions! Let's see to some of them early though.

1) I'm not sure if all loopholes can be removed,due to the nature of the mechanics. Say,Green Park being a battlezone and so forth. Hacks such as bbq will surely be a huge red flag though,as the team is very strict about it.

4) The current nanoforge is as it was in SP,not Global,so there's no chance at failure right now. But,if the team can get the forge/augger "enhancer" items to work,the most probable next step is to enable them as drops. This will be the case with other such items as well,as the project will not be monetized and thus there's no need to sell them.

5) That's a devout wish of mine as well. Fortunately so far it doesn't look like the intention was to shift the game towards crit builds,or at least not to the extent we saw in Global. Now,the line the team must tread on this is very delicate; crit builds cannot be made useless,but they do need to be regulated. Elemental effects do (in my view) need to be a viable option,but their combination with crit builds needs to be carefully considered,or we'll simply end up in a "crit-and-some-phase/ignite" endgame state.

6) Well,some SP mods have made wonderful steps towards this. Increase Sniper weapons' RoF and/or base dmg,tweak the Sniper skill's numbers and scope,and so forth. In my humble opinion,this will require much testing to be properly done but it should be quite an easy task.

7) I'm rather sure that we'll see much less of Global's SH grindfests. Not only is the exp curve going to be much more reasonable,but Wake Hallow will also be there. Frankly,that means the 1st room runs will be pretty much impossible ;)
Title: Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
Post by: Khorga on Jan 04, 2017; 08:14 PM
Hey everybody,

here are my points concerning changes:

First would be changing the limit for nano forge so that almost all weapons can be upgraded until max level. So some cool weapons can find their way into endgame or enables some quirky stuff to mess arround with resonable damage.

Remove some if not all faction requirements for guns as well as give all classes some sort of gun related skills.
Just remember the good ol' gun guardian :)

Balance number of sockets for weapons or give them all maximum possible sockets. Many many weapons just got dismissed from endgame due their lack of sockets especially for uniques and monster infrequent drops. Sure there are guns like dunbars, but many other suck due lack of sockets.

Just imagine that techsmith's toxin evaporator with 4 mod slots and lvl 50 base on that rapid fire MM...

And last but not least, thank you guys! You're just epic!!!
Title: Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
Post by: duelos on Jan 05, 2017; 01:07 AM
 Great to see work being done  in MP . Been alone time , I still play SP ,I like lost London . Way to go , keep up the hard work .
Title: Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
Post by: Malachor on Jan 05, 2017; 03:36 AM
Remove some if not all faction requirements for guns as well as give all classes some sort of gun related skills.
Just remember the good ol' gun guardian :)
EDIT: After giving this a bit more thought, I will disagree with my previous disagreement; to a certain point anyway. Weapons don't need to have maxed slots, but yes, making them in general more viable is a good idea, not just at endgame.
I disagree with this, since hunters will only get access to rubbish guns(low range), and the other factions have at least one weapon type specific to them(foci, and sword and shield), ok they still would, but they'd be getting better guns from the hunters.
Guardians already have access to guns, perhaps changing skills to work with them more effectively would be better.
Balance number of sockets for weapons or give them all maximum possible sockets. Many many weapons just got dismissed from endgame due their lack of sockets especially for uniques and monster infrequent drops. Sure there are guns like dunbars, but many other suck due lack of sockets.

Just imagine that techsmith's toxin evaporator with 4 mod slots and lvl 50 base on that rapid fire MM...
I'd rather mod slots stay the same. Look at the example you provided; it'll make the game easier.
Also adding extra mod slots to a weapon isn't an easy task. Most of what determines an item's mod slots is the model; they have various bones labeled the different slot type and number, like battery_slot1, battery_slot2 for example. Giving all weapons 8(maybe 9**) mod slots would be unbalanced, no hunter would use anything but Hu's Hypershots for example; a pair of 600 rpm pistols with 8/9 slots? Hello easy mode.

**the model for the posieden sniper rifle has 9 mod slots, but the game only supports 8.
Title: Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
Post by: snomann72 on Jan 05, 2017; 03:45 AM
1 idea came across to me is Auto-Dismantle.  Could it be possible in the near future when the game is out, code it in.  I believe there was a feature in MP of HGL.
Title: Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
Post by: BlueSunshine on Jan 05, 2017; 10:35 AM
@Bryan
Thanks for the prompt response :)
I guess I have been globalised :D My memories of the original game have grown dim with my advancing years. I only really picked it up from my son who had the original from launch and started playing once the multiplayer servers were thrown open at the end. I loved it and the original BlueSunshine was running around SH on the night they shut down.
Keep up the good work and HGL can live again multiplayer in a better condition than ever before, the game we all want it to be!
Title: Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
Post by: Dragonborn on Jan 05, 2017; 01:21 PM
Are we able to chat by Microphone like XFIRE ?
Title: Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
Post by: Butsutekkai on Jan 05, 2017; 03:48 PM
1 idea came across to me is Auto-Dismantle.  Could it be possible in the near future when the game is out, code it in.  I believe there was a feature in MP of HGL.

I was about to suggest the same thing even though it has no connexion with the skills ^^ It was a really cool thing in HGG but very limited because it was from the cach shop iirc.

As for the skills, i might be a bit rusty and not being completely up to date, but id like to see a slight buff for the lightning skills of the evoker. I love static "turret" skills like the storm cloud but it was a bit underwhelming last time i tried. Maybe increasing the radius/number of thunder hits as we invest points in it ?
Title: Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
Post by: Itsjustme on Jan 05, 2017; 10:26 PM
Will it be ranks? If so maybe a way so u can level to 55 first and then rank. Didnt worked any good in hgg If level before ranks

Dont remeber how it was in hgl but in naga some skills cost very much mana to cast

I dont like that when u nano a weapon it increase the item level so the mods dont fit anymore

Im very glad that u guys are so awesome and put alot of time in this game, nice work

Title: Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
Post by: Bryan on Jan 05, 2017; 10:34 PM
1 idea came across to me is Auto-Dismantle.  Could it be possible in the near future when the game is out, code it in.  I believe there was a feature in MP of HGL.

There's a very good probability that it will make it in ;)

Are we able to chat by Microphone like XFIRE ?

Not so far as far as I know,but Discord should make for a decent substitute,no?

As for the skills, i might be a bit rusty and not being completely up to date, but id like to see a slight buff for the lightning skills of the evoker. I love static "turret" skills like the storm cloud but it was a bit underwhelming last time i tried. Maybe increasing the radius/number of thunder hits as we invest points in it ?

Last I checked it,ours looked quite impressive actually.
But that's a very viable suggestion to keep in mind during endgame testing :)

Will it be ranks? If so maybe a way so u can level to 55 first and then rank. Didnt worked any good in hgg If level before ranks

Dont remeber how it was in hgl but in naga some skills cost very much mana to cast

I dont like that when u nano a weapon it increase the item level so the mods dont fit anymore

Ranks are there,but I'm not sure how scaling is/will be handled. So I can't tell if it will be optimal to grind for Ranks at lv50 or lv55. I do know the exp will be quite more reasonable though :)

Mana cost seems much more reasonable than in Global so far,but I haven't reached endgame yet to tell...

I can't tell if the Forge will change or remain the same either,sadly. Though I do share your dissatisfaction with it rendering mods incompatible,I do like that it can carry mid-level weapons all the way to the endgame if one wishes :)

Title: Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
Post by: Butsutekkai on Jan 05, 2017; 10:46 PM
Wow really nice to see auto dismantlers are likely to get in !

I never played the original MP but only the HGG one, and i remember the cash shop being a giant cock blocker for the enjoyement. As stated, 2038 will be free without premium or anything so how are you huys planning the features that was previously in the cash shop ? Full access to all the perks seems reasonnable to me as having to pay in HGG to not destroy your items by going above +6 or mods when removing them was a gigantic stupid idea, but i can't vouch for the features the original MP had.
Title: Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
Post by: Bryan on Jan 05, 2017; 11:07 PM
Wow really nice to see auto dismantlers are likely to get in !

I never played the original MP but only the HGG one, and i remember the cash shop being a giant cock blocker for the enjoyement. As stated, 2038 will be free without premium or anything so how are you huys planning the features that was previously in the cash shop ? Full access to all the perks seems reasonnable to me as having to pay in HGG to not destroy your items by going above +6 or mods when removing them was a gigantic stupid idea, but i can't vouch for the features the original MP had.

Most such items that can be retrofitted will most likely either appear as drops,or be readily available to everyone. Can't say anything beyond that,as frankly it's too early to tell.
If there's one thing that's already certain,it's that nothing will be balanced around a cash shop ;)

As for the second part of your comment. So far,both the Forge and the Demodificator work as they were in SP,so no such items are needed to counter-balance their...unfortunate side-effects in Global.
If they do change (which I doubt),such items will surely also be added.
Title: Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
Post by: Butsutekkai on Jan 06, 2017; 10:14 AM
Ok that's what i wanted to hear and it's awesome !
Title: Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
Post by: BlueSunshine on Jan 06, 2017; 05:39 PM
Further thoughts of a more frivolous nature ;D
Will we have the "costume" slots active as in Global? If so I would love to see an option to have costume active in station and armour when in battle action.
Personally I would prefer no attributes on these items so that it is purely a cosmetic choice which you use. Also with the dye kits, I would prefer them to be stat free for the same reason. Use ring/necklace slot for skill/attribute options imho.

I should add these would be the last things of all to spend any effort on...
Title: Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
Post by: hildos on Jan 06, 2017; 07:37 PM
What I realy want to see online?  Nagahaku mod ofc  :D

More seriously (I'm assuming it's not possible, at all), maybe I can help by telling what I hate in Hellgate London:

1: Side quests:  in HGL, they are incredibly boring and lame, and we have to do those twice to finaly get all the extra attrib points.

2: inventory is realy small and items size realy big. It's frustrating to make PRDs to check/sell/dismantle items several times on the same run. The "wow inventory" option would be great for that reason.

3:Skills are realy unbalanced. Some are insanly good (DPS), others are just a no way to go. For example, On HGL, all vokers were Tempest-Arc legion- skull splitter (sometimes). In HGG, all were Flameshard cause of the nerf of elec lightning. Marksmen were all multishot..etc. What I like the most in Naga mod, is that it increases diversity by boosting skills underestimated (BM's Sword Typhoon= OMG!, for exemple). I wish to see more diversity in 2038.

4: Templars are underpowered compare to other classes, spacialy on group. DPS is realy hard to increase after a certain limit on a BM, and immortality should not come with "no damage" on guardian. Multi auras is a must to help reducing this gap beetween templar and other classes, imo.

Hope it helps.
Title: Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
Post by: Bryan on Jan 06, 2017; 10:16 PM
Further thoughts of a more frivolous nature ;D
Will we have the "costume" slots active as in Global? If so I would love to see an option to have costume active in station and armour when in battle action.
Personally I would prefer no attributes on these items so that it is purely a cosmetic choice which you use. Also with the dye kits, I would prefer them to be stat free for the same reason. Use ring/necklace slot for skill/attribute options imho.

I should add these would be the last things of all to spend any effort on...

In its current state,2038 only has a dye kit slot and a ring slot. Costumes are a wish of mine as well,but frankly they haven't even entered the discussion table yet due to the whole team's sheer workload towards a stable game.

I cannot say if the dye kits will be stripped of stats,but I doubt it. I can say,though,that the Abyss rings are fully functional already and should be quite an asset ;)

What I realy want to see online?  Nagahaku mod ofc  :D

More seriously (I'm assuming it's not possible, at all), maybe I can help by telling what I hate in Hellgate London:

1: Side quests:  in HGL, they are incredibly boring and lame, and we have to do those twice to finaly get all the extra attrib points.

2: inventory is realy small and items size realy big. It's frustrating to make PRDs to check/sell/dismantle items several times on the same run. The "wow inventory" option would be great for that reason.

3:Skills are realy unbalanced. Some are insanly good (DPS), others are just a no way to go. For example, On HGL, all vokers were Tempest-Arc legion- skull splitter (sometimes). In HGG, all were Flameshard cause of the nerf of elec lightning. Marksmen were all multishot..etc. What I like the most in Naga mod, is that it increases diversity by boosting skills underestimated (BM's Sword Typhoon= OMG!, for exemple). I wish to see more diversity in 2038.

4: Templars are underpowered compare to other classes, spacialy on group. DPS is realy hard to increase after a certain limit on a BM, and immortality should not come with "no damage" on guardian. Multi auras is a must to help reducing this gap beetween templar and other classes, imo.

Hope it helps.

I cannot comment on side quests and inventory,for the reasons mentioned above. I can discuss skills,however.

For one,sadly I don't think there will ever be absolute skill balance. Some builds,some skill&gear combinations,some approaches to damage-dealing or damage mitigation will always be more efficient than others.
What I can say without a doubt though is,2038 will most likely have a very satisfactory skill and class balance.

The Evoker you mention,for instance,doesn't look like a class that will have an absolute do-or-bust build. Flameshards will still shine,but new gear and skill tweaks also make other skills viable. Demonspine looks splendid,and so do Tempest,Skullsplitter and Spectral Serpents,each for their own purpose. Hellfire and Swarm both seem fantastic,particularly with new Glyphs designed around supporting AoEs. With the current power costs and gear,I dare say even Spectral Lash may be made viable by those determined to make it so.

As for Templars,I can say without a doubt that this will not be the case. As I also mentioned on Discord,BMs look so insanely powerful that they may very well challenge or surpass MMs and Evokers.
Just to give you an idea:

-Str bonuses are calculated before skill damage multipliers,and presumably also before cdb.
-Power costs are decreased for most skills.
-Skills such as Sword Typhoon have been revamped to make them much more dangerous.
-SoJ in particular is borderline broken. In earlier versions of HG,each swing would deal -35% damage. The current SoJ deals +103% per swing,on top of str bonuses,+ele %s and cdb. I cannot begin to describe how much of a damage boost this is in action.

So no worries,Templars will shine again ;)
Title: Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
Post by: hildos on Jan 07, 2017; 07:34 AM
"-Str bonuses are calculated before skill damage multipliers,and presumably also before cdb.
-Power costs are decreased for most skills.
-Skills such as Sword Typhoon have been revamped to make them much more dangerous.
-SoJ in particular is borderline broken. In earlier versions of HG,each swing would deal -35% damage per swing. The current SoJ deals +103% per swing,on top of str bonuses,+ele %s and cdb."

 :o, OH MY GOD!

MissPeel, here we go again! That surpasses all my dreams. I WANT TO PLAY THIS GAME!!!!!!
Title: Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
Post by: Butsutekkai on Jan 07, 2017; 02:15 PM
Ahah Hildos will now have wet dreams until release :p

I agree that inventory in a loot game should always be HUGE. At high lvl, we also have to carry with us the small things that will eventually go inside the inventory anyway and that reduces the space for fresh loots even further. It's a tedious and old limits that don't need to be carried through time. I really hope you can find a solution for this, maybe by using the extra cash shop bags T3 implemented ?

On the skill balance matter, will it be "balanced" around crits like HGG or will we have more freedom ? I hope it's the latter as i'm more than tired of games where crit is the only way to scale up DD.
Title: Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
Post by: Bryan on Jan 07, 2017; 03:56 PM
I agree that inventory in a loot game should always be HUGE. At high lvl, we also have to carry with us the small things that will eventually go inside the inventory anyway and that reduces the space for fresh loots even further. It's a tedious and old limits that don't need to be carried through time. I really hope you can find a solution for this, maybe by using the extra cash shop bags T3 implemented ?

On the skill balance matter, will it be "balanced" around crits like HGG or will we have more freedom ? I hope it's the latter as i'm more than tired of games where crit is the only way to scale up DD.

Bags are actually a great idea! If they can be retrofitted,they can probably be added as drops or quest rewards. Of course,if not,the inventory itself shouldn't be hard to expand.

On skills,I am really hoping 2038 can distance itself from the crit-or-bust route. Unfortunately,the more I explore,the more I see some hindrances:

-All the Abyss sets have base crit on them,some in multiple/all pieces.
-Base crit,ccm and cdb values are all much higher than Global. I dare say,they're probably double.
-Many skills seem to push classes towards crits. MMs and BMs in particular seem to have been intended to focus on crits.

I'm not sure how this can be tweaked to make other setups equally viable. At the very least,BMs and MMs seem likely to have a solid crit foundation and room for extras,such as,say,ignite/phase/etc.
It's too much to make sense of on paper,so I'm hoping the beta will be enlightening :)
Title: Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
Post by: Blackwoodforest on Jan 16, 2017; 09:06 AM
Summoner:

I´d love to have some kind of possibility to "auto cast" an elemental, pet, etc. when they die. A little switch besides the skill to make it autocast would be a great benefit. What are you thinking?
Title: Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
Post by: Bryan on Jan 16, 2017; 10:49 AM
Summoner:

I´d love to have some kind of possibility to "auto cast" an elemental, pet, etc. when they die. A little switch besides the skill to make it autocast would be a great benefit. What are you thinking?

Sounds good. I'm not sure if it's possible,or who the primary targets would be (as main minions have a CD I'm guessing it'd be Elementals) but it sounds like a good option to have.
Title: Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
Post by: Blackwoodforest on Jan 16, 2017; 11:36 AM
The same would work on the engineer with the drones of course!
Title: Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
Post by: Bryan on Jan 16, 2017; 11:25 PM
The same would work on the engineer with the drones of course!

Well given that the Drone also has a CD,I assume it'd be easier to use an autocast feature on the bots. Would also make for a very easy way to use the bot self-destruct commands more efficiently.

That aside,here's a suggestion of my own for future consideration.

-Slightly/considerably/x9001 increase mob density in Stonehenge. Not only will this reestablish SH as the exp area it was in Global,but it would also somewhat help with the sudden level jumps while motivating people to visit the "new" area often.
Title: Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
Post by: Blackwoodforest on Jan 17, 2017; 06:09 AM
Shame on me, of course the bots, thats what I ment. Course not the drone. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Title: Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
Post by: Butsutekkai on Jan 17, 2017; 08:30 AM

[/quote]



-Slightly/considerably/x9001 increase mob density in Stonehenge. Not only will this reestablish SH as the exp area it was in Global,but it would also somewhat help with the sudden level jumps while motivating people to visit the "new" area often.
[/quote]

I'm not sure sh is the best place to do that. In global, it was a matter of loading times more than gameplay to level grind. Enter => nuke the whole 3 to 7 rooms at once with a strike with +3 billion radius => go out => kick peaople with slow loading times that prevent you from going fast => repeat.

While i really hope the radius "bug" could stay like in HGG, i would prefer bigger areas for levelling as we would spend more time killing stuff than loading the same area. What about increasing the xp/density in the zones that give the orbs you need to fight Moloch ? People would grind there and still be involved in some way as they would want to kill the boss for some reward.
Title: Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
Post by: Wolfilein on Jan 17, 2017; 08:57 AM
I like most of the ideas and suggestions so far.

I would love to see the following changes/implimentations:

- Make elements more usefull/powerfull
 
- Make skills/builds that focus on Shield/Energyshield more impactfull.
   Maybe more and better interactions with elemetal-effects. This could improve the value of       
   Shieldpenetration.

- Tone down crit chance/multi (should be still viable but very hard to reach cap)
   Global had lower values compared to HG:L, but it had more Item slots to boost crit.
   Maybe cap crit-multi or impliment crit-resist-mod for mobs.

- Impliment some of the Pay-features from global like Inventory-bags, Dismantlers, etc.

- additional Skillpoints per drop and/or questreward. I loved the amount of skillpoints in global.
  (could have used even more for my char +20 wasn't enough^^)

- An additional difficulty or expert-mode to provide a Challange for all the min-maxing freaks out there.
  ( like base defense wich was not intentional but bugged^^)

I have so much ideas... but i will wait until i get a chance to test the London2038 version. Maybe after testing i will create some wall-of-text about portential changes and balancing.
Title: Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
Post by: Alternalo on Jan 17, 2017; 09:57 AM
I'll update this if something else come in my mind...

Blademaster

Sword of Reckoning and Sword of Authority
Both skills are under performing compared to Sword of Justice (even the not OP base version) or even Whirlwind.
You could easily double Sword of Reckoning's damage and even then it will be lower overall dps than SoJ (if you calculate with crit chance/damage factor)
Sword of Authority should have a high inherited ignite chance to make it what FSS probably meant to do with this one: a boss killer.

Charge cooldown should be lowered to 5 sec.

Crosscutter should pierce enemies in line like Demonspine. Reduce the cooldown to 2 sec.
Reduce Sword Typhoon's cooldown to 5 sec, or make every point invested in Crosscutter reduce the cooldown by 1 sec.

Whirlwind
Make it's base running speed faster, and make it last longer. You can barely hit a few mobs with this now.
Synergy: 15% run speed per Sword of Justice rank
Synergy: 5% extra damage per Sweeping Strike rank


Marksman
Rapid Fire
This skill should be an active channeling skill, and work like Firestorm on Evoker. Controlled burst should lower the power consumption per sec.


Summoner
Concentrate Elemental skill shall return in this version too. It wors like Concentrate Damage on Evoker (cancel if you move), but it's purpose to summon all elemental of each type with a single cast. This was a summoner perk, granted at lvl1, no way to upgrade it.

Elemental Nova
Each rank should add ~5% splash radius

Meat Shield
Increase the base taunt strength of this skill and add 15% taunt radius per point invested, otherwise this skill will remain a 1 point wonder (i think noone is interested on extra damage on a Carnagor, when you have 30 other elementals summoned, each dealing like twice damage as your Carnagor).

Word of Fear
This is a very underused skill (does anyone even using it?), but it's fear strength is also very weak.


Evoker
Firestorm
Decrease spread, increase the distance to 15m

Flameshards
Decrease spread by 33%, make it damage on contact, not on fuse.

Hellfire
Reduce the delay between cast and impact to 2 sec.
5% splash radius per rank

Demonspine, Venomous Spirit
Extra projectiles with every 4 points invested.

Bone Shards
Increase base damage, adds 1 fragment to Skullsplitter per rank.

Skullsplitter
Please make the initial projectile also explode upon contact with enemies. Currently it's just disappear without any noticeable damage. The reason is the unnecessary amount of precision required for this skill to use properly compared to any other skill.

Arc Legion
Reduce the time this skill needs to build up.

Lightning Field
Synergy: 8% damage per Arc Legion rank
Synergy: 15% duration per Tempest rank

Swarm
Increase it's base damage, it's very weak compared to any other field spells.

Summon Ember
1 extra projectile per rank

Spectral Bolt
If you could make this spells projectile go in less random directions with earlier split...

Spectral Lash
Make it's behavior exactly like Drain Power. One initial beam, which splits into multiple ones when more enemies around, also make sure it doesn't stops channeling when you kill something or it's getting out of focus.

Spectral Lash Mastery
In addition to the basic explosion bonus
5% Spectral Bolt damage per rank
5% Spectral Lash damage per rank

Spectral Serpents
Please move this spell under Spectral Curse
 I am ok if this skill stays where it is now, if the skills above getting some buff like i've described. We need a playable spectral build.

Concentrate Damage
Automatically activateing if you doesn't move for 3 sec. Cancels on move like before.


Engineer
Molotov Assault
This skill is barely do any damage in the alpha version compared to vanilla. Please buff it's damage.

Armor Retrofit
Please enable Gloves and Helmet slots for drone if it's possible. The reason behind this, is that drone's damage if fine in normal and nightmare but if you want to implement hell, pure damage won't be enough and everyone will drop drone, and will go with strikes and full crit weapons instead. If you have 2 additional armor slots you could improve it's critical chance. If this is too difficult to progam alternatively i could suggest that Gun Retrofit should give your drone 1% critical chance per skill rank.

Shield Generator Retrofit
This skill should be a passive bonus for Medpak Retrofit

Nanobots
Should target enemies a lot more often. Currently Bomber Bot is a way better option than this, not to mention that this skill is at the very bottom of the Inhibitor Bots tree, which means 9 additional skill point spent compared to Bomber Bot. I strongly suggest you to move this skill from this tree below Bomber Bot.

Title: Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
Post by: Violet-n-Red on Jan 17, 2017; 10:47 AM
Demonspine, Venomous Spirit
Extra projectiles with every 4 points invested.
Demonspine has piercing, right? won't it be a bit too much to be able to throw several long ranged piercing high damage projectiles? if we'll have to pick two properties out of piercing, several projectiles and high damage, i'll pick high damage and piercing. it just feels good. plus, IIRC there are no other piercing skills.
Title: Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
Post by: Alternalo on Jan 17, 2017; 10:59 AM
Well in Global it had multiple projectiles but they decreased the piercing chance from 100%. Im fine with the current version tho, however it feels a bit weak compared to Venomous Spirit, not to mention Flameshards.
Title: Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
Post by: Wolfilein on Jan 17, 2017; 12:38 PM

Lightning Field
Synergy: 8% damage per Arc Legion rank
Synergy: 15% duration per Tempest rank

I would love to have some synergy effects. Not only on these lightning-skills, but in all the skilltrees
To make starting skills more attractive for endgame and reward players for focusing on a single aspect of a skilltree/class.
Title: Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
Post by: Bryan on Jan 17, 2017; 01:27 PM
I'm not sure sh is the best place to do that. In global, it was a matter of loading times more than gameplay to level grind. Enter => nuke the whole 3 to 7 rooms at once with a strike with +3 billion radius => go out => kick peaople with slow loading times that prevent you from going fast => repeat.

While i really hope the radius "bug" could stay like in HGG, i would prefer bigger areas for levelling as we would spend more time killing stuff than loading the same area. What about increasing the xp/density in the zones that give the orbs you need to fight Moloch ? People would grind there and still be involved in some way as they would want to kill the boss for some reward.

Ah,but we're safe from that my friend!

-Strikes don't seem to be affected by radius/crit/ele %s on weapons,at least not as far as I've noticed yet.
-Exp is generally much more generous than in Global,so there isn't much motive to powergrind.
-Abyss is all the rage,so I doubt people won't grind there too,or even instead of SH.
-Most importantly,we have Wake Hallow  ;) Therefore,no 1st room-and-out runs!

I'd dread to see the level race become what it was,but I doubt we'll see that  :D


I like most of the ideas and suggestions so far.

I would love to see the following changes/implimentations:

- Make elements more usefull/powerfull
 
- Make skills/builds that focus on Shield/Energyshield more impactfull.
   Maybe more and better interactions with elemetal-effects. This could improve the value of       
   Shieldpenetration.

- Tone down crit chance/multi (should be still viable but very hard to reach cap)
   Global had lower values compared to HG:L, but it had more Item slots to boost crit.
   Maybe cap crit-multi or impliment crit-resist-mod for mobs.

- Impliment some of the Pay-features from global like Inventory-bags, Dismantlers, etc.

- additional Skillpoints per drop and/or questreward. I loved the amount of skillpoints in global.
  (could have used even more for my char +20 wasn't enough^^)

- An additional difficulty or expert-mode to provide a Challange for all the min-maxing freaks out there.
  ( like base defense wich was not intentional but bugged^^)

I have so much ideas... but i will wait until i get a chance to test the London2038 version. Maybe after testing i will create some wall-of-text about portential changes and balancing.

Most of those are already covered  ;) But namely,

-Elementals. Those do feel underpowered in many ways still,so I'd love to see some buff in place.

-Shields. Oh yes,those are much more important than they were.

-Crit. This is a touchy subject,and I'm not sure it can/will be achieved to the point you describe,but it certainly already is better off than in Global.

-Cash shop items. Most of those that can be retrofitted will make it back into the game in some form.

-More skillpoints. These aren't in the game yet,and I'd also want to see them return.

-Difficulties. Well,for the moment there's Normal and Nightmare as it was in SP,but there's also Elite and Hardcore,and there's even talks of restoring Hell. Not sure how that will be finalized (as the way they function now limits the ability to party),but I suspect there will be one for everyone  ;)


I'll update this if something else come in my mind...

Wow those are many!

A few I know I agree or disagree right off the bat:

-General synergies. Yes,absolutely. As long as balance is ensured,synergies are an idea I'm very very fond of.

-Crosscutter. Yes,the simple addition of pierce should make the skill great again  ;)

-Concentrate Elemental. Yes,a billion times yes. It's probably the greatest first step to making Ele builds viable.

-Meat Shield. Yes,absolutely. If a main build of Summoners is making them tanks (still inferior to Guardians due to lack of Denounce and minion dependancy,as it should be),then Meatshield needs to at least be on par with Challenge for dealing with packs. I'd also like to see the Carnagor not being immobilized,as in Global,and reducing its CD to make it an actually reliable taunt skill.

-Hellfire. Yes,the fuse timer is horrendous.

-Lightning Field and Swarm. I do agree they both need a slight buff,and I especially like the idea of buffing Field through synergies with its tree. Makes dedicated builds more appealing.

-Spectral Serpents. This is one I know I disagree with. I feel that having it where it is makes sense,as it both motivates players to invest in the Spectral Tree (weak as it may currently be in endgame,fingers crossed for buffs) and it provides some degree of point-sinking so it doesn't become a skill all builds grab as easily.

The others,well. I'll need to test and envision  ;)
Title: Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
Post by: Violet-n-Red on Jan 17, 2017; 03:51 PM
oooh, Synergies, me likey! i'd love to propose some, but, as i understand, synergies is a tool of indirect buffing and i don't know what skills are too strong or too weak.
Title: Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
Post by: Butsutekkai on Jan 17, 2017; 07:41 PM
That's some good news Bryan :)

However, i have to admit i really enjoyed the power of engi strikes in HGG. The radius at least. I feel it was a fun way to use them. I like to see my skills getting bigger as it's a visual representation of the character's power.
Maybe not to the point we had in global though it was completely broken as we were able to cover any map entirely once we reached the bugged threshold :p
Maybe we should be able to increase the radius to a certain extand, but not making them subject to stats like crit ?

I'm happy to see you guys consider changing the hellfire fuse time as it was by far my favorite skill to farm cata with in HGG. Double Glyph Cage hellfire felt so rewarding to play and really smooth to use <3
Title: Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
Post by: mcenal on Jan 17, 2017; 10:38 PM
If it is at all possible to increase the level cap past 60, though I know in SP and SP mods it starts breaking things down after that because of how the mods worked.  It would be cool to have a lvl 60+ area (I don't know how difficult that would be to do.)
Or perhaps add a new area (like Global added in Tokyo and other places, but rather the main map but with lvl 60+ boost added.)
Title: Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
Post by: AngryChelseJP on Jan 18, 2017; 03:06 AM
※私は英語が話せません。これらはGoogle翻訳、またはトロール英語を用いています。
※I do not speak English. These are Google Translate, or Troll English.


BladeMaster SURGE Skill rework idea

SURGE OF **** ~ NeedCost, ActiveSkill, It can not be used at the same time as other SURGE

////////////rework///////////

SURGE OF **** ~ NoNeedCost, Passive(Activate with 10% chance when Nomalattack or Skill gets hit)
Can be used simultaneously with other SURGE

I think that the effect may remain as it is
However, it is quite inconvenient to use it.

BaseChance10%, +1Skill = +2%SkillReleaseChance

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL5AClmBKww
0:30~ Automaticaly surge skills activated
Title: Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
Post by: Bryan on Jan 18, 2017; 04:23 AM
※私は英語が話せません。これらはGoogle翻訳、またはトロール英語を用いています。
※I do not speak English. These are Google Translate, or Troll English.


BladeMaster SURGE Skill rework idea

SURGE OF **** ~ NeedCost, ActiveSkill, It can not be used at the same time as other SURGE

////////////rework///////////

SURGE OF **** ~ NoNeedCost, Passive(Activate with 10% chance when Nomalattack or Skill gets hit)
Can be used simultaneously with other SURGE

I think that the effect may remain as it is
However, it is quite inconvenient to use it.

BaseChance10%, +1Skill = +2%SkillReleaseChance

Heya,welcome :)

Surges are already passive skills now. Their max chance to activate is 12%,and with the Surge Mastery skill they go up to 33%.

So consider that done :)
Title: Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
Post by: snomann72 on Jan 18, 2017; 09:37 AM
One other option is auto-sort I forgot to mention.  In Hellgate London MP side, there was a Auto-Sort Feature.  Not sure if anybody remembers and didn't see anybody post it.
Title: Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
Post by: AngryChelseJP on Jan 18, 2017; 09:41 AM
※私は英語が話せません。これらはGoogle翻訳、またはトロール英語を用いています。
※I do not speak English. These are Google Translate, or Troll English.


BladeMaster SURGE Skill rework idea

SURGE OF **** ~ NeedCost, ActiveSkill, It can not be used at the same time as other SURGE

////////////rework///////////

SURGE OF **** ~ NoNeedCost, Passive(Activate with 10% chance when Nomalattack or Skill gets hit)
Can be used simultaneously with other SURGE

I think that the effect may remain as it is
However, it is quite inconvenient to use it.

BaseChance10%, +1Skill = +2%SkillReleaseChance

Heya,welcome :)

Surges are already passive skills now. Their max chance to activate is 12%,and with the Surge Mastery skill they go up to 33%.

So consider that done :)

thank you!! arigatou!!
I like skill trees of HGT and HGG over HGL :D
Title: Re: Ideas: Skill/Class changes!
Post by: Malachor on Jan 18, 2017; 10:19 PM
I'd like to see the option to change the fov for both firstperson and thirdperson cameras.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: SeeonX on Jan 23, 2017; 04:09 AM
Problem: Inventory management is an interesting concept and can add new dimensions to any good action RPG. In this version, I feel it slows down game play far too much, stops the immersion of killing demons and puts a dent in crafting.

Idea: Storage increase along the lines of Storage 3.0 mod which gave players 3 slots that you can tab between. Weapon, Armor and Miscellaneous. These tabs should still be restricted to their type. A weapon can't go into the armor tab.

How this would make the game more enjoyable: This change I strongly believe would increase immersion into the game play, while still providing a sense of reward since you can still pick up your rewards. Being able to explore this great game longer and kill more often, while going back to town more on your terms not due to inventory frustrations. This new storage system would be a lot more crafting friendly but not increase Weapon/armor holdings as much if you only put in a normal tab. Not an extended tab which is like haveing 2 normal tabs in one that you can scroll up and down.


What are the negative impacts on gameplay: Increasing the storage by 2 extra slots would allow players to pick up an increased amount of items which I would expect allow them to make a more currency or break down and hold onto more materials. I believe we can counter this by simply inflating prices a bit in act 2 for vendor costs. We would want to increase material upgrade costs for common and uncommon materials costs, not sure about rare item costs they wouldn't technically drop more. 
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: brookie on Jan 23, 2017; 04:31 AM
This came up in the chat today, so I'm posting it here so it won't get forgotten:

Skill and Stat resets

Some ideas were:
Having a skill / stat reset npc that has its costs scale with level (essentially a price ceiling for skill / stat resets)

Having free skill / stat resets under a certain level threshold (For example, level 10, or 15?)
This makes the game more beginner friendly and lets new players experiment with their style of gameplay before deciding on one.

There was a comment about how there were free skill / stat resets given as quest rewards as well.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Blackwoodforest on Jan 23, 2017; 12:45 PM
Having a skill / stat reset npc that has its costs scale with level (essentially a price ceiling for skill / stat resets)

Having free skill / stat resets under a certain level threshold (For example, level 10, or 15?)
This makes the game more beginner friendly and lets new players experiment with their style of gameplay before deciding on one.
There is an item called "skill retrainer" and another one "attrbute retrainer", each resets as Its name says.
You do level fast in the beginning ans stats do really have not much impact in the lower levels, later as the game proceeds with items it gets interesting.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Blackwoodforest on Jan 24, 2017; 11:00 AM
for waves:

you could make something like a specifc area, where one of the party members has to stay to eventually active something a long he stays in the area (cirle) - (maybe a buff) or deactive something (like a timed bomb, choco.cloudse etc)), so this player can´t take part of the active fight in full aspect but yet help anyhow with some long range skills.

image things like flaming strike from enemy side, which hurt players but not mobs
or time bombs, which you have to dismantle before dealing damage to you?
I know you folks will hate me ...

maybe you can add environment into it
like poison clouds or flaming ground etc. falling ice shards from heaven
to increase a wave difficulty slightly like the same wave but with effects
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Necrovex on Jan 25, 2017; 08:19 AM
Hello to all Slayers of demonkind!

I am so much looking forward to finally get to play one of my all time favorites in MP and FINALLY get to experience the Abyss and Stonehenge content!!!!! Thanks to every one involved from the bottom of my Cabalistic Black heart... :D

Aaanyway, Everyone is talking about skills and what not but I was actually thinking of the Items...

Would it be possible to ( at a later stage ) give the Unique variants of weapons a 100% chance to roll with all slots for mods? I just thought it would make the rare chance of getting the right one even better when you finally get it!

And if you really have some time maybe make them look different by giving them a totally different color scheme? (Maybe a bit far fetched but hey :P)

Thank you again for all the hard work!!!!
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Blackwoodforest on Jan 25, 2017; 08:23 AM
Well I don´t like the idead that every unique weapon has already full slots available. It will decrease the fun of playing and the possibility to find another type or the unique weapon. And think about it, the weapon yet has other stats too then.

But for weapon skins - yay! Great idea - love it. Like dye kits for weapons!
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Necrovex on Jan 25, 2017; 10:11 AM
I totally get what you are saying, I just remember playing the game and getting bothered by not seeing a certain weapon fully modded and at its full potential - Unique - the best. Although I do get finding a better version, but then again that's what the stats are for. Anyway, just a small idea from a humble anxious caballist fan... :P :P :P

I am a very visual kinda guy so the more visual variety the better, so Unique looking Uniques would be very cool to me!
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Alternalo on Jan 25, 2017; 12:55 PM
You could solve the slot problem by adding MOD slot expanders. It was a cash shop item in Global,  but i'm sure you could just add it to a certain boss loot table. Just please don't Moloch...he is already too rewarding to kill :D Skill/Attribute retrainers, Dye kits. Adding it to Catacombs bosses or Desiccator would be a better idea i think.

Oh and talking about general changes:
I don't know if it is possible in the future to change augmenter's mechanics to a similar system what the Division and Diablo 3 using, where you can see what are the possible outcome, and you can choose from multiple rolls when you throw in your money.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Blackwoodforest on Jan 25, 2017; 01:50 PM

Oh and talking about general changes:
I don't know if it is possible in the future to change augmenter's mechanics to a similar system what the Division and Diablo 3 using, where you can see what are the possible outcome, and you can choose from multiple rolls when you throw in your money.

Not bad idea but rather something like just deleting the last augument instead of choosing. Lets keep it challenging , I don´t like to much comfort on games, they get boring then. Possibilities are nice, but not soft presents.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Wolfilein on Jan 25, 2017; 08:35 PM
Some more ideas and comment on other peoples ideas...

- I like the idea of "mod-slot-expanders" . As a rare drop from a boss or via special npc at high price.

- Extending the Augmentrex-system would be cool. I am no fan of the "choose one of these three possible mods", but i would love to have the ability to remove all augments on an item. DE-Augmentrex 4TW !!

- Extenden Inventory sounds nice. It's currently pretty stuffed in there. Maybe give additional tabs as questrewards, or make em aviable at certain level's(lvl 25 and 50).

- Timestamps for the Chat and maybe the option to display a clock ingame. Like with /fps /ping add a /time option.

- Make enemy-models (dead ones) transparent or fade out when getting close. After killing 2-3 Juggernauts or Gargantuas you can't see any other enemys because the corpses fill the whole screen. really annoying in ingame-levels.

- Testdummys to Test dps and elemental-effect-strengh. maybe put em in Greenpark-Station or inside a PvP-Arena that is labeled Test-Arena. There could be different dummys ... representing the different races.
The only problematic thing would be how the player would get feedback on their damage. Floating numbers?  Or a "damage dealt per minute" overlay when hoovering with the mouse over the dummy.

- A guildmate told me i should mention the annoying cast-delay for summoners when summoning minions. I think i have read it in this thread allready, but better save than sorry.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Wolfilein on Jan 25, 2017; 09:24 PM
And a seperate Post on the Topic "SNIPER"

I have been playing around a little bit with sniper-rifles, they are as underwhelming as ever. :(
It's still fun to snipe a vortex-goliath's from 50+m meters away with your unique Wargod-Rifle. But it's sad that the time needed to kill him is way to long. During that time the rest of the party has cleared the whole map. Or you yourself could have killed 5-7 gliath's from 30m with your white arclight-fusion-rifle.

While the base-damage on sniper-rilfes is ok. Most of the other stats are very lacking and penalize this playstyle. The RoF (usually 24rpm) is way to low. Enemys shields regenerate almost to full before the next shot can be fired. And when you get a "miss" the waiting-time is even more annoying :(
The critical-chance and -damage numbers are a little bit too low. Compared to some Evoker-weapons (25% crit-chance + 250% crit-damage) most sniper-rifles can't keep up. Usually you "trade" a upside for downside while choosing weapons. (mostly compensate the downside with gear and stats) But in the case of sniping therer almost no upside or only smal upsides and way to much big downsides. The Range is useless in 80% of the maps and the upside "base-damage" gets crippled by RoF, miss-chance(may be caused by mobs shown at the wrong location?) and the lack of crit-stats.

So here are some ideas to make "Sniper" a viable and fun Build.

- Up the Rate of Fire for Sniper-Rifles to 48,60,72. ( with 48 you still have a ~2 sec. delay between shots with sniper mode.
- Better crit-stats on Sniper-Rifles. Base critical-chance 20,16,12. Critical-damage 500,400,300. Coresponding to the RoF where solwer rifles have higher crit stats.
- As an alternative add a "True-Sniper" skill that improves the "handling" of sniper-rifles only. RoF, Crit, range and Damage. (the camouflage skill is pretty useless for snipers)

my head is spinning and i can't concentrate any longer... i will add more ides later... :)
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Malachor on Jan 26, 2017; 05:25 AM

- Up the Rate of Fire for Sniper-Rifles to 48,60,72. ( with 48 you still have a ~2 sec. delay between shots with sniper mode.
I agree with a lot of what you typed, but 60 rpm is too high. Well at lower levels it is. I think 48 is fine, maybe with an increase in the accuracy by 50% would do wonders.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Blackwoodforest on Jan 26, 2017; 07:51 AM
- A guildmate told me i should mention the annoying cast-delay for summoners when summoning minions. I think i have read it in this thread allready, but better save than sorry.
It is intended that the minion summoning takes longer as you call them from the depths of hell. Elementals are instantly cast but they are just small golems. The summoner would be to powerfull if you could cast instantly tanks etc. imho. I played them myself sometimes and its okay.

Think people, don´t catch for the most perfect lazy gameplay, just annoying things!
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: goaliepunisher on Jan 27, 2017; 02:58 PM
You could solve the slot problem by adding MOD slot expanders. It was a cash shop item in Global,  but i'm sure you could just add it to a certain boss loot table. Just please don't Moloch...he is already too rewarding to kill :D Skill/Attribute retrainers, Dye kits. Adding it to Catacombs bosses or Desiccator would be a better idea i think.

Oh and talking about general changes:
I don't know if it is possible in the future to change augmenter's mechanics to a similar system what the Division and Diablo 3 using, where you can see what are the possible outcome, and you can choose from multiple rolls when you throw in your money.

YES!!  I love being able to calibrate gear in The Division!
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Thepunk007 on Feb 02, 2017; 08:16 AM
+1 to sniper weapon revamp. It deserves a huge base damage boost.

Hellfury was also grossly underpower compared to z83 gatlings and should also be tweaked.

Augmentrex is perfect, never change it!

Nanoforge needs to be revamped similar to the way HGG was.
One of the most fun aspects of the game was the nanoforge gamble.
Preserves are not even needed, or can be added to some boss loot table.

I think I would rather see items above +6 not break and instead to just have a higher chance at failing and revert back to a random lower +.
Similar to the way it used to work when forging 1-6.
It litterally takes an ungodly amount of resources to even get +10.
Without preserves and a system like this implemented we would never see above +12.


Skills:

Skills should have a starting point to where HGG had them but...

-To make BMs viable strength needs to also grant crit damage and survivability needs a buff.

-Engineers were very much more closely balanced to evoker damage
then in the pre global days and splash/crit effecting strikes made gearing more fun and useful.
i.e. Many more weapon mods and armor bonuses had actual uses.
-To combat the problem of cookie cutter striker builds, damage bots can be greatly buffed.

-Marksman strikes should also crit and should probably also be effected by splash.
(Everyone may remember the broken bbq days of global and curse "noooo")
But hear me out...
-The problem with global and striker mm was not the strikes.
-The problem was phase grenade and the broken cannonades making pg do
10x the damage that was intended.
-Just strikes are fun and give an alternate build to the cookiecutter Sniper Marksman.
-If Phase Grenade and Explosive Grenade are dialed in and nerfed then this build will be far from game breaking.

-Summoner pets must crit.
-There should be 2 viable builds per class, summoner should have a buffed poison build and the usual tank build.

*I would also like to add that the stonehenge grind was great and should not be tampered with.  This gave a nice sense of community, and it was nice to need a full party of 5 friends, each with their own role in the xp grind. The grind gave a true sense of accomplishment and made rank 50 something rare and sought after.

And finally PLEASE make autodismantlers an innate part of the game.
As default they should always be active.
+1000 fun points for just that.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Malachor on Feb 02, 2017; 09:15 AM
Nanoforge needs to be revamped similar to the way HGG was.
One of the most fun aspects of the game was the nanoforge gamble.
Preserves are not even needed, or can be added to some boss loot table.

I think I would rather see items above +6 not break and instead to just have a higher chance at failing and revert back to a random lower +.
Similar to the way it used to work when forging 1-6.
It litterally takes an ungodly amount of resources to even get +10.
Without preserves and a system like this implemented we would never see above +12.
What was so good about this? And what are the differences to hgl? I never played global.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Thepunk007 on Feb 02, 2017; 09:35 AM
What was so awesome about the nano-forge was the gamble!  :D

Here's the info from the wiki on this site.
http://www.hellgateaus.info/wiki/Nano_Forge

It was also really cool to have a server wide announcement when people strive for those higher +7 and up enhancements.  The whole server would cheer for you giving a real sense of community!

The items would have a sparkly glow and show everyone what luck you had depending on their power level. (Girls especially loved that part)

Best of all level requirements for the forged items would not increase, only stat requirements would increase a bit.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Lokimo on Feb 02, 2017; 07:53 PM
if compare to HGG skills I think they are more balanced than SP skills , but there is one problen - most classes have no choice to get max dmg from 2 or 3 builds , for example : evoker - bigges dps he get only from demopspines + flameshards , because dmg of Arc Legion or Spectral Last for ex. is too low , and 70% of evoker skills are useless . So HGG mechanic of skills + increased dmg of skills like Arc Legion , Spectral Lash , Venom spirit and etc would be a good idea.

Same problem with marksman - strikes and grenades dont work , so class dont have any alternative build . So grenades and strikes must crits and affect splash bonuses.

Engineer - engi without splash and crit strikes - most useless class in game , the only thing what this class can do - Haste bot for party. So engi needs strikes and phase granade working too
ps. If you plan add tokyo content , how do you think people will farm base defence/cow room without strikers ? its impossible for mm , bm and all other classes , except evoker mb with his little hellfire

Blademaster - in HGG this class was useless on hell mode because of low damage and armor (no dps , fast death from bosses) so I think need to up bm with higher base dmg of skills and auras

Guardian - dont think what guardian have any problem in SP clien , one word - tank , this class dont even need in dps , only if shrapenel work here so grd can kill any boss in game solo like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yIrx4tI7Aw , so I think needs to fix shrapenel.

Summoner - good idea if minion will crit too , it would up summoner's dps . Also this class needs to have alternative build via Venom Spirit and other poison skills.

Agreed with Nanoforge , the "+" system is better than just increase lvl of weapon with next upgrade. And preservatives drop from bosses would be very cool. or just with fail weapon dont get destroyed and goes to +6 or with any randon system
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Malachor on Feb 03, 2017; 01:13 AM
What was so awesome about the nano-forge was the gamble!  :D

Here's the info from the wiki on this site.
http://www.hellgateaus.info/wiki/Nano_Forge

It was also really cool to have a server wide announcement when people strive for those higher +7 and up enhancements.  The whole server would cheer for you giving a real sense of community!

The items would have a sparkly glow and show everyone what luck you had depending on their power level. (Girls especially loved that part)

Best of all level requirements for the forged items would not increase, only stat requirements would increase a bit.
Hmm, ok. That doesn't interest me in the slightest. To be fair I never used the SP nanoforge that much either.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: DYoda on Feb 03, 2017; 09:09 PM
Hello from a lonely Cabal. So glad to see the gang back at it! Ahh the days of the hunts in the Wild, and Stonehenge. Looking so forward to MP times again. So hope to get a chance to beta with everyone.

Some additional space or a cube like expansion to the lockers would work for the item chasing game, as well as HGG share style between users created characters. Sniper, and Engineer should get a power tweak to make the game for them a bit more balanced in the beginning.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Wolfilein on Feb 03, 2017; 11:38 PM
Some more "Quality of Life" improvments:

- An indicator wich weapon-set is currently in use by the player. Maybe a little number next to the health-globe and/or a colorcoded-symbol(R,G,B). best would be both. :)

- Like mentioned before .. Improved Inventory/stash capacities. Some of the Global-Stuff was pretty neat. With a Focus on Stash-space and Mod-boxes for the stash. With only 2 Chars i am allready struggling to fit the items and mods into the stash.

- The option to create groups for you friendlist would be nice. To better manage all our future(and current^^) friends. An option to activate the notification seperatly per group would be nice too. And don't forget the mail feature. ( massmail to all players ina certain friend-group)

- Maybe some more Achievments to keep us motivated for a longer time. Together with some nice and funny Titles.

- We absolutly need some more information about game-mechanics. There have been serveral changes in the different versions of Hellgate. And even without these changes we know way to little about game-mechanics and their interactions. (there are certain things that cannot be testet or observed while playing. e.g. Evasion stat or the interaction of crit with status-effects)
(in one of my other posts i mentioned test-dummys for that reason)

- The ability to equip a dye-kit but till be able to select colors from other pieces of gear. ( was implimented in global if i remember correctly) 

Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Thepunk007 on Feb 04, 2017; 01:33 AM
What was so awesome about the nano-forge was the gamble!  :D

Here's the info from the wiki on this site.
http://www.hellgateaus.info/wiki/Nano_Forge

It was also really cool to have a server wide announcement when people strive for those higher +7 and up enhancements.  The whole server would cheer for you giving a real sense of community!

The items would have a sparkly glow and show everyone what luck you had depending on their power level. (Girls especially loved that part)

Best of all level requirements for the forged items would not increase, only stat requirements would increase a bit.
Hmm, ok. That doesn't interest me in the slightest. To be fair I never used the SP nanoforge that much either.

10% damage boost per weapon forge doesn't interest you? 😁
With no level restrictions.

The nanoforge on hgl was completely useless, that is why you barely used it...
Because of the level restriction.
And there was no gamble and no fun from using it.

If the way it was in HGG was implemented then there would actually be a point to using it and give reward to those people who play alot and save alot of materials.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Malachor on Feb 04, 2017; 02:26 AM

The nanoforge on hgl was completely useless, that is why you barely used it...
Because of the level restriction.
And there was no gamble and no fun from using it.
No, I didn't use it because I was looking for better items, ones that more suited my play style.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Bryan on Feb 04, 2017; 03:40 AM
Just to chime in on the nanoforge discussion...

Personally,I do like the SP nanoforge for a few reasons. The non-gambling factor aside (which I am fond of,myself),increasing a weapon's level meant that midgame weapons could be brought on equal ground with traditionally endgame ones. So one can stick to Hotshots instead of Hu's,Tuskulls instead of Abandoned Fists,and so on.
Moreover,a "gambling" factor of sorts was kept hidden with it. "Out-leveling" one's mods aside,increasing an early weapon's level meant that that weapon was then eligible for (mostly skill) augments it wasn't before. So,a mere Glenn's Polluting Rotfire could be eligible for a +Witch Doctor augment and so forth.
Not that that compares to the gamble factor of Global's nanoforge or substitutes for its endgame benefits,but still.

All that aside,in the game's current state I don't feel a damage boost of that magnitude is needed. I'd feel much more confident in suggesting it is restored after,say,Hell difficulty is also restored.

At this point,I feel the best middle ground would be to somehow have both forges available. If not as separate forges,at the very least as separate methods of upgrading one's gear.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Blackwoodforest on Feb 06, 2017; 08:18 AM
it would be somehow nice if a passageway would increase difficulty upon the next instance, means like if you get a passage way in a passageway it´s like x1,5 hard and so on, just a suggestion
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: snomann72 on Feb 06, 2017; 12:25 PM
Or better yet, do something like Dungeon Crawler or something to that.  Also, if you look at Final Fantasy X-2, they had you climb 100 floors to your reward.  And if you die, you start all over.  Every 10 floors you would get a bonus chest.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Blackwoodforest on Feb 06, 2017; 01:26 PM
Darksiders 2 had a similar thing, called the Arena. You chould choose every 10 waves to either get a reward and exit or proceed without reward but getting deeper for better loot.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Malachor on Feb 06, 2017; 02:11 PM
At this point,I feel the best middle ground would be to somehow have both forges available. If not as separate forges,at the very least as separate methods of upgrading one's gear.
This could be applied to the augmentrex 3000 as well; make an augmentrex 4000 that let's you choose the affixes but increasing the costs by, I would say, 5 to 10 times the augmentrex 3000s costs are. Considering you wouldn't get any useless affixes, 5 times would be the lowest.
Regarding the huge level dungeon, how would you guys balance the rewards? Obviously, it can't be the only source of the best treasure, since that would alienate casual players. So how would you suggest addressing it?
Oh and how many character levels would be achievable by going through it?
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Thepunk007 on Feb 07, 2017; 05:02 PM
Two forges and Two augmentrex would be pretty awesome.  I agree to that.

Wouldn't be too purist, but it surely does sound like fun and "the best of both worlds."
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: spiderthunder on Feb 08, 2017; 05:41 PM
In my opinion i have two suggestions spontaneously:

1. - i would be very happy about an "infinite" auto-dismantler ... like in hellgate global or in a similar way. it is no fun to dismantle every single item and its a time waste ^^ so plz integrate a possibility for auto dismanteling

2. - more informations for skills / damage output. the evoker for example have skills which increase the "elemental" strength of it skill - fireshards for example - but i cant find an value for the aktual attack strenth of elementals
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Violet-n-Red on Feb 08, 2017; 10:15 PM
oh, yeah, getting damage and effect values for skills would've been great. if getting an actual damage is not an option, then, at least, seeing damage multiplier would've been great too. something like this:
Skullslpitter - x0.15 power and x0.7 elemental effect multiplier.
Hellfire - x3 power and x2 elemental effect multiplier for initial explosion, x1 power and 4x elemental effect multiplier for damage per second of fire field;
*(not actual in-game values)

DPS value for weapons and skills would've been nice to have too.

or, again, just give us all the formulas :d
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Malachor on Feb 11, 2017; 02:31 AM
A screenshot function that doesn't include the ui.

A cube(yes, yes, I know, I'm a little obsessed) that's as good as the diablo 2 cube.
As an example, in diablo 2, you could apply properties/affixes to an existing item.
At the moment, in hgl, that's not particularly easy, and it would only work on a random instance of the item type. If you wanted to add fire damage to a sniper rifle then it would create a new sniper rifle with the damage applied to it, rather than using the one you placed into the cube. Trying to add a different damage type would be unfeasible.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: NiteHawk on Feb 12, 2017; 11:47 AM
Crafting affixes:

Maybe this could be achieved by turning the "recipe"s that occasionally drop into something that's actually useful? Either by allowing you to add or affect affixes directly, or by 'teaching' you new recipes that you can use in the cube or a crafting device. (The cube's mechanics might need an overhaul for this, as to my current knowledge it only allows a limited number of recipes with a *fixed* result, in terms of "treasure class").

I'm always frustrated with the nearly useless recipe drops that you can find in the FSS version - and they sell so cheap to the vendor that it's futile to even pick them up (they take 1x1 inv space, and finding/selling any mod would give you a higher profit). Global tried to "beef" them up a bit by dropping recipes for certain uniques, which made nice starter items during your first few levels, but quickly also turned pointless once you had half-decent gear. Okay - those were at least a free nanoshard each... :P

Regards, NiteHawk
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Omerta on Feb 12, 2017; 11:48 PM
Crafting affixes:

Maybe this could be achieved by turning the "recipe"s that occasionally drop into something that's actually useful? Either by allowing you to add or affect affixes directly, or by 'teaching' you new recipes that you can use in the cube or a crafting device. (The cube's mechanics might need an overhaul for this, as to my current knowledge it only allows a limited number of recipes with a *fixed* result, in terms of "treasure class").


Yes... I like this idea...  ;D
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: sk0pe on Feb 19, 2017; 04:27 AM

- Testdummys to Test dps and elemental-effect-strengh. maybe put em in Greenpark-Station or inside a PvP-Arena that is labeled Test-Arena. There could be different dummys ... representing the different races.
The only problematic thing would be how the player would get feedback on their damage. Floating numbers?  Or a "damage dealt per minute" overlay when hoovering with the mouse over the dummy.


1) that came to my mind this evening. so i simply quote wolfilein :)

2) can the first skillpoint please not be set in stone? i'd like to assign every skillpoint i get to whatever is possible.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Phoetus on Feb 19, 2017; 11:38 PM
Quote
can the first skillpoint please not be set in stone? i'd like to assign every skillpoint i get to whatever is possible.

This x1,000,000

I rarely use the skill tree the first skill point is 'spent' in and always feel like it is wasted.

Another option could be to make the point refundable on a respec, so we can at least spend it on a more desirable skill later.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Alternalo on Feb 26, 2017; 06:09 PM
Could you by any chance drastically decrease the reaction time of the drone?
tactical mode lasts for 10 sec and often doesn't even fire the weapon (automatic rifle) until it lasts
it should fire any target in range continuously intil it dies the moment it enters the drone's sight range
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Mr_Oger on Feb 26, 2017; 11:37 PM
First of all - i didn`t played the rebirth (or smth) at all, so i experienced only "usual" retail Hellgate: London.
I`m really looking for player`s character animation and movement enhancement. I find PC`s movement is clunky af, while NPC`s one looks pretty solid to me, so i`m not sure if it`s actually engine`s restrictions. And yea, proper firing animations.
I know that this will not be important at all before server will run stable and everything works 100%, but it would be really neat.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Violet-n-Red on Feb 27, 2017; 11:54 PM
i like Marksman's bullet skills and i would like to see something similar for other classes or factions. Blademaster already has Surges (and it would've been nice to be able to activate them with some % chance or on critical hits), but everybody else has nothing.

for example, it would've been nice to give Summoners some way to force their minions to attack specific targets. maybe something that measures amount of damage dealt to the targets and picks the target which took the most damage from player's weapons in the last few seconds. also something that would force minions to take and guard the area. bonuses for levelling the skills might be movement speed for target skill and regenerating shields for guard skill.

Evoker could get some passives too - different ones that activates and boosts field, AOE or direct damage skills/attacks. say, consecutive field attacks gets increase to elemental attack and interruption strength, direct hits - chance of multishot and AOE - smaller copy of an attack/skill cast on top of the character.

then there's Guardian who is left out. given it's defencive nature, i'd say it would make sense to make soemthing oriented on NOT dealing damage. say, each non-critical hit produces small AOE attacks around self and party members with growing after each such hit elemental attack strength derived from offhand weapon. or multiply critical damage bonus by percent of missing health and make it into cleaving/bouncing attack damage bouns. possibly get something for support too, like if attacked enemy(ies) takes damage, but does not get interrupted - massively increase it's vulnerability to random element for ~10 seconds.

also, new areas would've been cool too, even if they are just repainted&rearranged already existing ones :) even better if those has some kind of purpose - say, this area has only melee enemies, that one makes monsters drop more mods and less of everything else, and the one over there has respawning NPCs and regenerating enemies.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Malachor on Feb 28, 2017; 07:39 AM
i like Marksman's bullet skills and i would like to see something similar for other classes or factions. Blademaster already has Surges (and it would've been nice to be able to activate them with some % chance or on critical hits), but everybody else has nothing....
Sounds interesting. How would you balance out the skills then? Since you'd be giving some classes more skills than others.


I'd like to be able to log out to the character select screen, as well as the main menu(use this for swapping between SP and MP for example), and maybe also quit out of the game entirely.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Violet-n-Red on Feb 28, 2017; 10:46 AM
Engi and Marksman would then have less skills, right? if Engi's strikes doesn't receive bonuses from weapons in this version, maybe there should be skills that do. something that uses weapon stats and amplifies them, has no cooldown, but consumes mana - like Evoker's skills. since Marksman's bullet skills are traditionally used with single target weapons, maybe Engineer's skills should work best with AOE weapons. say, one skill could flat out amplify AOE and field effects size, the other one could increase AOE blast damage the less targets are caught in, and third one might produce field effects on AOE attacks.

what about Marksman... i dislike how several Marksman limits or even forbids movement, i'd love to see something that instead works best while character is moving. also, traditionally marksman utilises fast firing weapons, maybe there could be a skill or two that benefits from slow rate of fire. how about these: 1. buff skill that increases weapon damage and crit chance over time while weapon is not firing, resets after firing a shot, should grow quickly for 1sec. and a bit slower over the next 1; 2. another bullet skill that kills targets instantly if their current health is lower than current weapon's damage multiplied by this skill's modifier, modifier grown with skill level (something like x1.5 on first level and x3 on 10th); 3. buff skill with extremely short duration (1-2seconds?), duration counts backwards up to maximum value if player moves forward or diagonally forward, increases crit damage and adds all elemental attack strength.

hold on, Blademaster is also left out. i like movement+attack skills, so let me come up with something... :d

Charge is nice, but not nice enough. what if there was a skill branch that was increasing this skill's damage and refreshing skill's cooldown on kills? Whirlwind is pretty great, but i'd like to see an alternative to it - say, elemental whirlwind - increased melee weapon range, reduced damage, increased elemental attacks strength. step attacks (melee + direction) seems to be a unique feature of Hellgate, i'd like to have a skill for that too: each forward step attack adds temporary shield overload bonus, left step - melee AOE damage and right step - interrupt strength.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: sataricon on Mar 03, 2017; 09:33 AM
If at all possible can you make the skull spliter skill work just like in Nagahaku?
It's much more effective there and the thing is it's aiming in the original game is too hard for this skill.
No other skill needs this type of aiming.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: enzi on Mar 03, 2017; 06:08 PM
- Are you willing to do a Nagahaku branch server? I don't know if the dev team is a fan of the mod but it's Hellgate like I always wanted it.

- High mob density: Unmodded HG:L at early levels is such a snooze fest. A few single mobs spread out, some chunks of 5 monsters. I always tried to crank it up as high as possible. Only the Nagahaku mod (no crazy slayer) has a density that I'd find perfect.

- more monster pack variations: I don't have indepth knowledge but it seems there is a set amount of monster pack variations. (per dungeon?) if this can get more randomized that'd be cool. More often than not it seems there is a theme around just 2 mob types.

Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: DYoda on Mar 15, 2017; 08:08 AM
Gambling in 2038.

Players can wager their hard earnings with chances on a slot machine. The money the house makes can
go towards war drives. Also some type of tip board gambling for Mythic/Epic Items. Say people would buy
a tip, or space on the board, for a sum of money TBD. Once the board is filled the CM in charge of game
play goodies call draw the numbers from a deck of cards filling out all the boxes. The CM or guest can virtually draw the card to pick which box was the winner. Real time activities in game, coupled with Discord, can make it a very unique opportunity.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Death on Mar 20, 2017; 08:57 AM
- The First skill point should not be automatically put it.

- Costumes: Bluesunshine brought it up originally. I'm all for it with or without stats my only point of clarity would be if they have stats then it needs to be treated as a rather rare drop so that they're not easily acquirable after all a costume with stats is like another Black Knight Dye and that's a fair sized boost and should not be a free hand out so to speak. Oh They should also be able to be traded and not bound to a character like in HG:Global.

- The EVIL AUG MACHINE OF DOOM: If it's possible when I aug an item on a blademaster for example I do not want to be getting guardian skills. Class skills should only be acquired when auging an item on said class.

- Seasonal events: Make sure those are available if they're not already. Oh and make sure All Hallows Visage drops on the Halloween event.  ;D

- NanoForge: Change it to the + system similar to global.  I have one giant reason for saying this the current default method of the nano forge just bumps the Item level up and it creates a big problem most notably with guns which has existed since the dawn of hellgate. Essentially an exothermic arclite rifle nano'd 10 times is better then it's higher level variants simply because they can't be nano'd as much due to that lovely "need more experience" issue of your level being capped at 50.  That said there's no reason to upgrade to higher level guns currently what would be the point of picking up a lower damage rifle? Globals system on the forge despite being annoying was more practical I think.  I would revamp it saying that you could go up to +7 or +8 without risk of destroying your weapon as even in hell mode you could play through the whole game with those any higher was just a matter of convenience and there should be a chance of breakage but only if some form of advanced mod preserve is able to be dropped in the game. On the lower level nanoing I'd say failure sure only reduce the level by 1, instead of "possibly" rolling it all the way back to +0.

- Elite/hardcore/nightmare modes: Make it available right away instead of having to play through normal first. Hell mode would be great later on once people start getting good gear but it's not an immediate need. Just imagine though Hell Elite mode you know you want the challenge  :P.

- Auto Dismantler: Yes please, no one wants to spend huge amounts of time doing this manually.

- Cruelty Expertise - Make the damage tie in with critical damage, it didn't with Global which made it useless there and I frankly forget if it did or not in the original not something I've revisited in quite some time but if it doesn't it should.

-Elemental Defenses: In every version of the game I always felt like these needed a re-balancing as it always felt like you could never get enough to make it overly useful.

- BladeMaster: Throwing skills on the blademaster tree. Maybe make the throwing skills crit since they never used to? It's part of the reason no one used them. Rework sword of justice! Global balanced it alot better. In the original it seemed to dish out a bit to much damage and makes sword of reckoning utterly obsolete.

- I'll leave the summoner stuff to Bryan as he's the resident expert there and I trust his judgement on that. The only thing I'll throw out is it would be nice to see it get the poison tree again I thought that was one of the wiser things global did.

- Evoker: Spectral Lash has always been a bit under powered in every version of hellgate I'd like to see that buffed up a bit bear in mind it's a delicate balance though if you take pvp into account due to lashes range. I don't mind flameshards & demonspine acting like the did in global in fact it may be preferable because it would balance out with the electric tree then a bit and allow more versatility. Hellfire as well it was under powered in the original due to that large delay after cast and no increase in radius it's only plus side was it's damage if it hit. Drain Power, Drain Life and afterlife I feel these are all under utilized and rightfully so once you acquire decent gear there's very little reason to add points here I'm unsure of how to go about making these skills more worth wild to add points into for the evoker since they're more the domain of the summoner. I'm nearly partial to just replacing them with something a bit more useful although I'd love to hear others opinions on the matter since someone might have a good idea about it. Now that evoker armors actually have armor would you really invest your points into venom armor knowing there's arcane shield? I'm not sure what to do with venom armor but it needs something to make it a more viable option.

Summon ember.......why bother it's a drain on the mana pool it could use a buff to make it more usable in the late game.

-Guardian: I feel like the shield skills were under utilized and people only used a shield for its extra armor so I'd suggest a bit of re-balancing there to make it more desirable to have an offensive shield guard setup as an alternate to a tank setup with a shield. Oh and shrapnel needs to be nerfed a tiny bit it's hugely overpowered from the original Hellgate.

-Level Cap/extra skill points: This is a toss up and I'm rather unsure here so I'd love to hear others opinions on this one. Alot of us have played both the original hellgate london as well as the Global version. That being said what should be the level cap? Were those extra skill points you could get in Global useful in that it allowed more versatility? Or did they make characters too overpowered? I'm leaving this open ended as I can see merits both ways I mean more skills for certain classes allow more build variances and frankly in certain classes I can see this as a very good thing on the other hand other classes don't need it at all and I'm always worried about overpowering something. Then again skills tend to just allow more options in most cases and don't "Usually" impact dps etc. so Like I previously stated I'd like to hear others thoughts on this issue as someone who played both the original & global I can say they were both "balanced" on this issue in there own ways so I'm a bit stuck on what to suggest. But regardless I bring it up because even if I don't someone else eventually well.

-Marksman: Someone suggested MM strikes should crit, I'm very much against this back in global mmbbq allowing that was one of my biggest issues it completely unbalanced the class so I'd be very much against implementing such a thing.
Overshield: Does anyone actually use it? Compared to the other options available it's a poor choice not to mention that traditionally standing still on a marksman trying to tank hits is generally a bad idea. This skill needs to be revamped somehow.
Rapid Fire: This skill's just horrible, it's always been horrible. It desperately needs a helping hand.

Engineer: I'd like to see more usage out of the nanobots & bomber bot skills they're nearly never seen late game so I'd suggest some reworking on those two skills.

I won't even list the weapons that could use reworking we all know which ones are never used and so forth but ya it would be nice to see some of those become more viable in various builds.


-Less stonehenge grind fest. (Edit: this appears to already have been addressed)

P.S.

Excuse the poor grammar I wrote this at 4 am  :P
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Malachor on Mar 20, 2017; 12:31 PM
- NanoForge: If Bryan or a dev could clarify how it's currently set to work in Hellgate 2038 that would be useful. I suppose my biggest concern here is if weapons are destroyable at trying for +7 or higher then adv mod preserves should be items that drop off mobs or bosses somewhere. It probably needs some balance here as if they're not destroyable at some point be it +7 +8 whatever then I somewhat feel super powerful weapons will be acquired a bit to easily and eliminate some of the challenge of the game. From that perspective I'm for having the chance to destroy your item at some point.  Personally I'd let it go up to +7 without having that risk since I recall all the content on the harder difficulties were playable just fine with a +7, higher just made things go faster was all. Trying for +8 though I'd say you need a chance for "boom" without preserves.
The nanoforge doesn't work like in global, it works like in hellgate: london single player.
If you haven't played that recently, then I'll go over it.

You need a certain amount of scrap components, and nanoshards, each increasing each time.
So what happens each time you forge an item is it increases the item's level by 2, thus increasing the item's damage, shields, armour, sfx attack ability, sfx defence ability, interrupt attack, interrupt defence, stealth attack, ai change attack, feed, level requirement, item min level, item max level, buy price, sell price, as the case may be.
That's it.
Although, I think(I haven't specifically tested this) that if the item's level goes higher than it should, based on the item's maximum level, then it will be destroyed. Early on when we were first working on Revival we increased the amount of time you could forge an item, and some people said that their items were destroyed, so we decreased the limit back to normal. But we never tested it.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Violet-n-Red on Mar 27, 2017; 11:03 AM
after another person asked in chat about it and i remembered what i wanted to ask for: endless dungeon or, at least, very very deep one with at least several dozens of levels.

also, a challenge version of it, something that would be impossible to complete, each next level should be harder than the previous one.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Malachor on Mar 27, 2017; 11:11 PM
after another person asked in chat about it and i remembered what i wanted to ask for: endless dungeon or, at least, very very deep one with at least several dozens of levels.
How long would that take to complete?
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Violet-n-Red on Mar 28, 2017; 03:46 PM
after another person asked in chat about it and i remembered what i wanted to ask for: endless dungeon or, at least, very very deep one with at least several dozens of levels.
How long would that take to complete?
you mean how long should it take a player to complete the dungeon if it had finite levels? i don't know what is normal farming speed at higher levels would be, but i'd say if it was around 10 minutes to kill most enemies, then the whole dungeon should take around 4-5 hours or more - something that would let the player focus on killing and ignore things like going back to station to reset and reenter instance.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: h3llgat3 on Apr 15, 2017; 04:50 PM
Is it possible to add new classes?
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Bryan on Apr 15, 2017; 08:20 PM
Is it possible to add new classes?

It should be technically possible, yes.

Remnants of unused skills are still in the game's data, and current skills can be modified at will. So restoring old unreleased classes or creating brand new ones both seem like possible ways to go.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: h3llgat3 on Apr 17, 2017; 08:47 AM
Any chance to have London 2038's skill planner available soon?

The one currently show up is from HGG which is obsolete, isn't it?

I think you will get more suggestion if people can get access to the skill tree.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Bryan on Apr 17, 2017; 02:19 PM
As the current skills reflect the skills' state from TCv4, there's no skill planner that accurately depicts 2308's skills, sadly.

The closest one at the moment is this one, that's an SP one.
http://www.hellgateaus.info/forum/hellgate-london-general/sp-skill-planner/msg56523/#msg56523

It's essentially those skills, separated in tabs, with each class having 3 new TC skills.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Malachor on Apr 19, 2017; 11:15 AM
Any chance to have London 2038's skill planner available soon?
Depends on what you mean by soon. :)
I'm having a look at it, and hopefully I'll have some progress to report by the 30th of this month.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Farkasakraf on Apr 20, 2017; 09:57 PM
I just want one thing....the Summoner's Zombie Form.Nothing more,nothing less.
I have sooooo much fun while i'm playing Hellgate Global,with Zombie Form.but...now i'm bored.And sad.
I hope,you guys can help me play ZF again.Or i can play now in SP with some mod?
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Bryan on Apr 21, 2017; 02:52 PM
I just want one thing....the Summoner's Zombie Form.Nothing more,nothing less.
I have sooooo much fun while i'm playing Hellgate Global,with Zombie Form.but...now i'm bored.And sad.
I hope,you guys can help me play ZF again.Or i can play now in SP with some mod?

Heya, welcome :)

Memory's fuzzy on whether SP mods included ZF, though Nagahaku 3.0 should include some reworked melee skills for Cabalists.
2038 does have Darkform though, which is essentially ZF with a different model :)
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Alternalo on Apr 22, 2017; 10:05 AM
Death Squad event

Random appearance on maps like hellrifts or passageways, a hellrift is opening around the player (just like the one in Crown Office Row) and a squad of epic imps/gremlins appear wielding Gatling Rail Cannon, with a leader of a named Vortex Wraith.

Is it possible to make such event?
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Violet-n-Red on Apr 22, 2017; 01:25 PM
Death Squad event
Firefall says hello :)

i'm also curious if it possible to do something like this or what we had in Global :d
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Gorogox on Apr 23, 2017; 12:40 PM
Hello everyone!Finaly we wil play again this cool game :D i hope there will be Twohand swords for templar classes.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Alternalo on Apr 25, 2017; 11:50 PM
Guild System Overhaul

So we was talking about this in Discord, but i want to write down here what exactly i imagined about this. I am trying to use currently available features as much as possible, to make it more easy to implement.

So first of all, we need a guild stash. This feature is much needed, if you ever want to improve the guild system start with this please :P

Now the second thing, guilds in hellgate currently have no real purpose, i mean the only feature if have is the guild chat. There are a few MMOs with a guild upgrade system, where you can craft things to make passive buffs for the whole guild, and i think this could be implemented in Hellgate relatively easily. So how should it work:


 First of all, every guild should get access to a new techmith npc that can produce numerous types of Guild Banners. Guild Banners could be crafted for regular crafting elements but it would cost you a whole lot more than an avg craft. These items should work like those that currently unlocks certain skills in your skill tree, but it would unlock passive points in a Guild Expertise tree. Once you've unlocked it, you could improve it by using Guild Expertise Upgrade Tokens.

These tokens could be crafted via blueprints which can be bough from a Guild Vendor, for a good amount of money. There would be 4 types of blueprints, from level1 to level4 upgrade tokens, each one cost you more and more money. The crafting elements of these blueprints would be regular crafting elements AND a bunch of "new" item called Sacred Fragment (this was introduced in Global, had a bit different purpose), which could be acquired by doing Daily Quests available for any guild members. The Daily Quest npc could be the Wanted sign that would refresh every day, available in every station and sends the player to kill a random Named boss to any map near that station. As a reward each completed quest would yield 1 Sacred Fragment.

The Guild Experties passives could be similar to the regular ones but i think having those effects twice on your character is fairly rewarding for all the work this needs to be maxed out. Also to clarify things: by Guild Expertise points i meant a guild wise passive system, so if the leader upgrades a passive then everyone in the guild would receive the effect. This is why i suggest high amount of resources to produce them, so the players in the guild must share the wealth to gain more power.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Malachor on Apr 26, 2017; 02:28 AM
Have you thought of any way to account for different sized guilds?
Would a guild of 20 have to pay the same amount as one of 100 for example?
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Alternalo on Apr 26, 2017; 07:33 AM
That would lead to complicated situations like you have a guild of 100 but with only 30 active members. Would you expell 70 just to make a buff?
However i understand your point, but i know no guild systems that is fair vs solo players or large guilds vs small ones. As a guild leader you'll be eventually looking for more active player to make the guild's progress easier.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Golgothan on Apr 26, 2017; 06:51 PM
I have a few ideas for rebalancing some skills. I'm omitting skills that are bugged as most are known and fixes are already being worked on.

Evoker:

Bone Shards and Skullsplitter - Skullsplitter, while an amazing damage skill, requires more finesse to use effectively than any other skill in the entire game. I suggest that the effects of Skullplitter get swapped with Bone Shards. Bone shards will shoot out several fragments from the caster's body and each SP will increase the number of fragments up to 30 at rank 10. Skullsplitter will explode on impact as a single aoe like a MM grenade and use Bone Shards' visual effect and each SP will increase its stun attach strength and damage.

Firestorm and Flameshards - These skills, while they have excellent damage potential, require you to be in melee range for them to be effective which is the exact opposite place you want to be as an evoker. My idea is that increasing the max range and reducing the cone size of these skills while slightly lowering their damage output would balance them out vs the other evoker skills.

Elemental Potency skills: Evoker has several utility skills that aren't very effective or basically lackluster.  I'm suggesting that each of these skills is replaced by a toggle effect that adds bonus elemental damage and effect strength for all attacks. Each sp spent in these skills would add a synergy effect that would affect all elemental potency skills. Only one of these skills can be toggled at a time.

Venom Armor- This skill was very useful as an alternative "Oh sh*t" button to Arcane Shield back in the original hellgate when caster gear had no armor on it. Now that caster gear has armor on it, this is no longer the case and the skill is barely if at all useful. The new skill, "Corruption", would add toxic damage and poison effect strength to all attacks when toggled. Synergy - each SP increases the elemental effect strength bonus of all elemental potency skills.

Summon Ember - This is the most lackluster skill in the entire class. It basically turns the evoker into a mini summoner and requires minion stats on gear to be at all effective AND it decreases your power pool which is the last thing you want as an evoker. The new skill, "Engulfment", would add fire damage and ignite attack strength to all attacks when toggled. Synergy - each SP increases the bonus damage of all elemental potency skills.

Spectral Serpents - Unlike summon ember, this skill does not decrease your power pool but the serpents summoned are pretty useless even with minion bonuses on gear. The new skill, "Ethereal", would add spectral damage and phase attack strength to all attacks when toggled. Synergy - each SP adds a bonus to max power points while an elemental potency skill is toggled.

Arcane Resiliance - this skill simply doesn't do enough to merit the SP investment and is just generally boring. The new skill, "Overcharged", would add electricity damage and shock attack strength to all attacks when toggled. Synergy - each SP adds a bonus to critical chance while an elemental potency skill is toggled.


Summoner:

Elementals - With the right skill/stat point investment, you can build a huge army of these little guys that will decimate anything in their wake. Unfortunately, the drawbacks to these skills will slow you down to the point that most groups will just leave you in the dust. I'm suggesting a few changes to all elementals and how the skills work.
  1. Elementals should teleport to your location when you move out of range instead of simply dying.
  2. a new skill should be added that when toggled, summons the maximum amount of elementals of each type when activating the corresponding skill but will also halt the caster's movement.

Hand of Nostrum - The Witch Doctor is potentially the best party healer in the game based on pure HPS output. However, if you have other minions active such as elementals, the witch doctor will almost always prioritize them over the rest of your party because it will always attempt to heal the ally with the lowest health percentage and your minions can go from 100% to 5% hp in a single hit from a zombie. This can be solved by utilizing the defunct active skill granted by "Hand of Nostrum" (originally the skill was supposed to grant the extra healing beams for a certain duration when the skill was activated. the effects were made passive but the active skill was left in for some reason even though it does nothing). I'm suggesting that this defunct active skill should be changed to a toggle that when activated removes minions from the witch doctor's possible healing targets.

Evoker skills crossover - Many have stated their liking of the addition of the Evoker's poison tree to the summoner class in Global as it gave them a more active role in combat. While I do agree, I feel that the bone tree (with the changes noted above) would be more suitable as it better fits the theme of necromancy and it provides more utility than the poison tree


Guardian:

Two-Handed Swords - This is one thing I felt Global did entirely right. In Hellgate, Guardians have very little DPS potential. The addition of two-handed swords and allowing guardians to use them with shield skills gave them actual dps potential. If doing so in London 2038 isn't possible, the alternative would be simply increasing the damage bonus granted by Shield Master.

Prayer of Smiting - This skill has the potential to be a great aoe option but currently has such pitifully low damage and shock attack strength that it's entirely worthless. Prayer of Retribution has laughably low damage too but it makes up for that by having decent phase attack strength. I'd suggest at least doubling the base damage and shock attack strength of this skill and making the rank up effects of the offense prayers into synergies. One of which increases the damage of both skills and the other increases the elemental effect strength of both skills.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Malachor on Apr 26, 2017; 11:14 PM
What about Warframe's clan system? http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Clan
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Itsjustme on May 01, 2017; 09:29 AM
Glad to read the alpha engi topic, nice to see that you guys making progress.

Om thing with items feed (atleast this was a thing in previouse versions except global). If you have 10 points free in stam and the item have a feedcost of 20 stam but adds +20 to aa or stam. Then you cant use it. The + aa or stam boost is counted first when u have it on. So you need to add +10stam to use it and then you have 10points free when bonus kick in
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Skummer on May 01, 2017; 07:29 PM
1. I found the game unplayable in DX9 with all its glory. For some reason my interface becoming very slow (mouse speed especially). I dont see this in DX-10
2. DX-10 hard crashes need to be looked at. it hasnt happened very often.

In general its playing really well. (Better than i remember back when i was a lifetime sucker)

CHanges? hmmm

1. Auto pile components by type in the stash. I have to manually sort everything after i move stripped components over. I'd like to right click and have it auto stash (like diablo 3)

2. "Smart Loot" - I'd like to see more loot i can actually use. As a MM i keep getting legendary swords and evoker items i cant use. its annoying. :)

3. Figure out the dead in mid air bug for some creatures that die while in flight.

4. Fix the laser goggles. :)

5. Less time considering a "costume store" and more time on playability and bug items. stuf like that can be considered after you have a working product.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Alternalo on May 02, 2017; 12:19 AM
1. Auto pile components by type in the stash. I have to manually sort everything after i move stripped components over. I'd like to right click and have it auto stash (like diablo 3)
Have you tried Ctrl - Click?

2. "Smart Loot" - I'd like to see more loot i can actually use. As a MM i keep getting legendary swords and evoker items i cant use. its annoying. :)
I am against this idea. It is necessary to find items for every faction because they break down into different type of components which will be necessary for upgrading your items at the nanoforge. But don't worry when the marketplace will be funcional you can "exchange" those items for something more useful for your faction.

Here is some idea for smoothing out the leveling process:
-From nightmare difficulty (or from lvl30) you should give players rare and legendary item rewards, noone will care for the crappy green ones (or even whites)
-The amount of XP given by quest should no less than 1/10 of the required XP for the next level, considered the content level. (or even 1/5 on nightmare)
-Quests that involve killing a certain mob type should generate at last twice the required amount when you entering that map. Make sure they drop the necessary quest items 100% of the time.
-Increase the amount of mobs spawning in hellrifts and ancient blood tremendously. These are optional areas, so if you can handle it you can get a great xp bonus from these areas, but if your build can't handle all those mobs at once you can just avoid it and not blocking your way to the next station.
-Greatly increase the drop rate in hidden passageways. Currently these are the less valuable, or we can just say it: they currently doesn't have any purpose like the other two types.
-Cave type passageways are really really bad. Please make them look like Stonehenge cave areas, these tunnels never contain anything.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: eyezz on May 04, 2017; 05:46 PM
Hello 2038´ers

here also an idea that´s a bit influenced me in Warframe:

Every guild should have the possibility for a internal test-arena. Here U can test weapon- or skilldamage at specified monsterclass-dummies (without any drop or xp-rate). If somebody knows the test-arena in warframe, for me it was a very useful tool testing modifications on weapons or skill´s.
If it´s possible anyway - testing also in party-mode would be very nice for the synergies every class has.

The Testarena could also be a  reward from different drop´s to built the arena in the guild.

Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Bryan on May 04, 2017; 08:04 PM
Can't comment on guild suggestions, as I wouldn't know how possible most such suggestions would be. Though it'd generally be great to see the guild system expanded :)

5. Less time considering a "costume store" and more time on playability and bug items. stuf like that can be considered after you have a working product.

I can assure you luxury/QoL/cosmetic items are barely discussed yet ;) As you say, for the moment stability and basic fixes are the top priority.

Spectral Serpents - Unlike summon ember, this skill does not decrease your power pool but the serpents summoned are pretty useless even with minion bonuses on gear. The new skill, "Ethereal", would add spectral damage and phase attack strength to all attacks when toggled. Synergy - each SP adds a bonus to max power points while an elemental potency skill is toggled.

While I'm generally really fond of synergies, I personally find Serpents to be quite the amazing skill. Serpents and Tempest alone have been my go-to option for most of the game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6r72Jek1-rU

Edit: It turns out that +minion damage does affect them. +damage and the such definitely affect them as well, albeit possibly not as "cleanly" as other direct skills. They also crit, so there's that ;)

Many have stated their liking of the addition of the Evoker's poison tree to the summoner class in Global as it gave them a more active role in combat. While I do agree, I feel that the bone tree (with the changes noted above) would be more suitable as it better fits the theme of necromancy and it provides more utility than the poison tree.

I do agree that the Bone tree would synergize well with Summoners, DF ones even more so. However, if DF allows spells to be cast while active, Venom Armor would probably be a godsent. Even more so if it's "repaired" into its earlier version, when it would deal some decent damage back on attackers.

As a player, I'd rather have them both. But balance-wise and class-wise, it would seriously blur some lines ;)

If anything, Tempest would probably fit Summoners best. But that's like Guardians asking for SoJ, so probably a big no-no, that one.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Omerta on May 05, 2017; 04:31 AM
5. Less time considering a "costume store" and more time on playability and bug items. stuf like that can be considered after you have a working product.

If you think we've spent even a second on "considering a costume store" you must be high and I want want you're smoking :D
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: electrofux on May 20, 2017; 12:52 PM
What i always wanted in the old HG, was to upgrade all the cool low level uniques to the Level Cap so that they can be used in the late game.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Bryan on May 20, 2017; 01:29 PM
What i always wanted in the old HG, was to upgrade all the cool low level uniques to the Level Cap so that they can be used in the late game.

That's an advantage that the current (ie SP) Forge offers. Granted, it's limited so only midgame Uniques can become endgame-viable...

I briefly thought that removing the level cap may rectify the situation, but that would raise an unholy balance nightmare. It may be more realistic to handpick low Uniques that qualify as "cool" and...retrain them, in the sense of creating upgraded midgame/endgame versions of them.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: electrofux on May 20, 2017; 02:59 PM
What i always wanted in the old HG, was to upgrade all the cool low level uniques to the Level Cap so that they can be used in the late game.

That's an advantage that the current (ie SP) Forge offers. Granted, it's limited so only midgame Uniques can become endgame-viable...

I briefly thought that removing the level cap may rectify the situation, but that would raise an unholy balance nightmare. It may be more realistic to handpick low Uniques that qualify as "cool" and...retrain them, in the sense of creating upgraded midgame/endgame versions of them.

Yeah balancing might be a problem. I remember i farmed my ass off to get two of those templar nova weapons that had double the fire rate and do a build around it. WHich was cool until the weapons capped out and there was no replacement for them since they were very lowlevel. Same for my nob focus cablist were some cool weapons capped out soon. I remeber dunbars also capped out early. Also there was this cool plagueblaster with a high fire rate that was dropped in the Mind of Techmsith. Very cool to run around with two of them stuffed with onhits.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: dehumanized on May 23, 2017; 04:40 AM
what about making the cube have a space for result items, this way making itens on bulk you dont need to remove the result of every trade, i dont mean more free space, have a withdrawal only space that could fit every item, if you ever tried to make  your 100 large health injectors into 50 nanodynes, you would know what i mean. if not viable, make the result go to inventory directly, that works as well
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: slicklou on May 23, 2017; 03:45 PM
Here are some items for decision:

1.  If the character can do cartography by mapping levels, then the way-points found should be permanent to the mini-map.  This of course would not be true upon obtaining a new in-game generated map.

2.  If jewelry, can be "cleansed" of negative (red font) attributes to positive, then could the double-edged weapons be "cleansed" also?  If not at lower levels due to balancing, then at higher levels?

3.  With the drone issue on engineers that disappear with good weapons/armor, can't the drones be character created only vs. server pool?

4.  Can weapons dropped by enemy contain a mod or two already in them?  I don't understand how the enemy can de-modify a weapon upon death.  The mod does not have to be a great one, but maybe one can get lucky?

5.  Can the drones use dye kits in order to distinguish my drone from a party of Engineers drones?

6.  Can the drone transform to artillery mode by becoming temporarily stationary upon some tripod legs (e.g. example:  see Siege Tanks in Starcraft).

7.  Can the drone and engineer share their shields when close to each other?

8.  I found two items (green/light blue) with the same name and stats except the double-edged having the additional negative stats.  When I go to sell each item, the double-edged sold for more?  Why is their a price difference if something has negative stats?  I would assume the item would cost very little to a vendor, as no player would want to buy it...unless it can be "cleansed" as previously mentioned.

v/R

Slicklou
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Vastion on May 24, 2017; 09:25 AM
Hey Hellgaters!

  I've played a bit from vanilla and through global. Others have had many good ideas, so mine will just be a few quality of life improvements and such.

  1: Personally, I enjoy being able to see numbers when I damage something, like final fantasy or the like. Small, but perhaps enjoyable to most. (no idea if this is impossible or just not in the spirit of the game, I just prefer it!)

  2: Size of weapons compared to size of character. Any way to scale down, for example, swords on a minimum height/build character? Sometimes, it gets humorously ridiculous lol. At least in my revival 1.5 games. :)

  3: I have followed the dev diaries and such, but I have to ask: I haven't been able to find an answer, so is there any rough estimate on when the beta will be ready for open beta? I would only be able to play 3-4 days a week with the current beta, so I figured that wasn't enough to merit you accepting me as a beta tester. If I am wrong... I'LL APPLY I PROMISE! lol.

  Thanks for taking the time to read. I leveled 4 classes to max in global. When this comes out... I'll be maxing them AGAIN and reliving my fondest gaming moments -while- farming end game content with any able bodied adventurers. Til then... great work guys, you're really hanging up peoples younger gaming days and allowing us to relive some of the better moments in our gaming career/life lol. It's very much appreciated!

  Vastion: out!
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Alternalo on Jun 19, 2017; 11:30 PM
Redesigning Dye kits
Everyone's favourite Dye kit now is the Black Knight for obvious reasons, but it is a bit annoying that you must sacrifice your dye slot just because of effectiveness, so here is my idea:

Remove all stats from dye kits, replace it with an achievement that gives you the same effect, so you can equip whatever dye you want while still gaining the effect. I know with this solution it would be possible to gain more than one dye effect, but except for BK they aren't that powerful and you are sacrificing your achievement slots with each.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Malachor on Jun 20, 2017; 01:20 AM
.... I know with this solution it would be possible to gain more than one dye effect, but except for BK they aren't that powerful and you are sacrificing your achievement slots with each.
Then just get rid of the stats on dye kits. I always thought it was a mistake to have stats on some, and not others, but if everyone's going for one over all of the others, then nerf them all.
But really, does it make that much difference?
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: BlueSunshine on Jun 20, 2017; 08:10 AM
Redesigning Dye kits


I agree, always thought it was stupid to have a cosmetic choice tied to stat advantage.
I would remove all bonuses and maybe replace with a random Luck bonus to add some interest.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Alternalo on Jun 21, 2017; 02:04 PM
.... I know with this solution it would be possible to gain more than one dye effect, but except for BK they aren't that powerful and you are sacrificing your achievement slots with each.
Then just get rid of the stats on dye kits. I always thought it was a mistake to have stats on some, and not others, but if everyone's going for one over all of the others, then nerf them all.
But really, does it make that much difference?

Well 8aa on BK can make significant difference assuming you keep your feeds at full (usually except for strength) 8aa can give you 24 more accu which means 48% more cdb. As i wrote there would be a solution for getting rid or the stats from dye kits but keeping these benefits as achievement rewards, so you could change your dyes whenever you want without the fear of losing an important bonus.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Bryan on Jun 21, 2017; 06:02 PM
Well 8aa on BK can make significant difference assuming you keep your feeds at full (usually except for strength) 8aa can give you 24 more accu which means 48% more cdb
If mod feeds are restored (and depending on how exactly they are) it will probably come to that, yes. At the moment I think it'd practically yield ~16-32% CDB, even more so with those massive +AAs on some set pieces and Dreadnaught rings.

But agreed otherwise. I'd very much like to see the Black Knight dethroned as well, as dyes *should* be a cosmetic choice first in my books.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Malachor on Jun 22, 2017; 08:47 AM
Well 8aa on BK can make significant difference assuming you keep your feeds at full (usually except for strength) 8aa can give you 24 more accu which means 48% more cdb. As i wrote there would be a solution for getting rid or the stats from dye kits but keeping these benefits as achievement rewards, so you could change your dyes whenever you want without the fear of losing an important bonus.
So what is your cdb without that extra up to 48% bonus?
Also, isn't the dye kit a random drop? So you aren't actually guaranteed to get it?
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Alternalo on Jun 22, 2017; 09:55 AM
So what is your cdb without that extra up to 48% bonus?
Also, isn't the dye kit a random drop? So you aren't actually guaranteed to get it?

It is around 3,4% of my damage. The dye kit drops are indeed random, but why this is important?
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Malachor on Jun 23, 2017; 02:03 AM
So what is your cdb without that extra up to 48% bonus?
Also, isn't the dye kit a random drop? So you aren't actually guaranteed to get it?

It is around 3,4% of my damage. The dye kit drops are indeed random, but why this is important?
Because you're talking about an achievements bonus which only requires time to get- it's pretty much guaranteed that you'll get it.
And 3.4% of your damage is minor, so it's not like you actually need to have it. Meaning that the bonus could be removed from the dye kit and not added back elsewhere.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Alternalo on Jun 23, 2017; 01:02 PM
So what is your cdb without that extra up to 48% bonus?
Also, isn't the dye kit a random drop? So you aren't actually guaranteed to get it?

It is around 3,4% of my damage. The dye kit drops are indeed random, but why this is important?
Because you're talking about an achievements bonus which only requires time to get- it's pretty much guaranteed that you'll get it.
And 3.4% of your damage is minor, so it's not like you actually need to have it. Meaning that the bonus could be removed from the dye kit and not added back elsewhere.

But my suggestion involves getting the actual dye kit which triggers the achievement, therefore you need the same amount of time to get the dye kit and the achievement...i don't know whats the problem with this.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Malachor on Jun 24, 2017; 02:56 AM
So what is your cdb without that extra up to 48% bonus?
Also, isn't the dye kit a random drop? So you aren't actually guaranteed to get it?

It is around 3,4% of my damage. The dye kit drops are indeed random, but why this is important?
Because you're talking about an achievements bonus which only requires time to get- it's pretty much guaranteed that you'll get it.
And 3.4% of your damage is minor, so it's not like you actually need to have it. Meaning that the bonus could be removed from the dye kit and not added back elsewhere.

But my suggestion involves getting the actual dye kit which triggers the achievement, therefore you need the same amount of time to get the dye kit and the achievement...i don't know whats the problem with this.
I thought that you wanted a new achievement that gave you the bonus but there was no mention that the achievement required finding the dye kit.
There is already an achievement that grants +aa: equip legendary items. Although it only grants +2. As well as four that grant bonuses to the individual stats.
So I guess the principle is already there.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Guardian of the Hell on Jun 25, 2017; 01:43 PM
Sydonai health is really low for his position "Final boss" . in global wiki was 3333 , maybe 6000 or 7000 can describe him as the hardest monster... ? :P
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: csh4324 on Jul 03, 2017; 03:35 PM
I wish Blademaster's Surge skills change into buff skill, not using it(which is same in Hellgate Global).
'Chance for successful  melee attacks to build up a surge: n%'
Thank you.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Sius on Jul 11, 2017; 11:58 PM
Please change quest: Another´s work.

Goal is to kill 9 soul drinkers in Shoreditch but guess what. Invisible mob on open plain map = it is depressing trying to fin 8/9 mob for 15+ minutes and map explored to last pixel. Just add more spawnpoint of these creatures because searching for invisible mob is not fun.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Zrin on Jul 12, 2017; 06:03 AM
I would love some kind of demonic possession spell like Warcraft's Metamorphosis ability.
I don't know how difficult it would be to do, but mounted combat? How I'd love to see a summoner shooting demons while riding a carnagor.
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: sobe44 on Jul 12, 2017; 07:51 AM
Hello all,

Here are a few thoughts &  ideas for the potential end game,OK?

I just read a bit on the http://www.hellgateaus.info/forum/london-2038/ideas-skillclass-changes!/ site area.

 Omerta I love the ideas of Bryan there to make groups more important.

For all in the groups need to not only contribute but maybe offer mechanics that others in a group can not such as the old engineer's model could make healing & stunning/slowing  bots, etc,

Thus they could either sub heal or mainly heal a group going against a boss...

That is if the engineer's bots could help more than the engineer's as a potential change.

That to me seems like a great idea..

 I know in world of Warcraft que's u must have so many damage players tanks & a healers or more.

Although in randomly made NT qued groups they fail like mad since there r almost no players that want to be responsible to heal / tank at all, thus welcome to tons of wipes in raids on heroic ,mythic levels since the gaming raid mechanics are ignored for mass dmg over & over until they eventually leave & blame a tank or whoever for their mistakes in armor stat character building or whatever.

For instance a grand mistake I found out the hard way while playing my shaman was most players in a raid I was in insanely depended on my temporary spell/buff for a group.

It's called lust in World of Warcraft, it does a temporary haste boost to the group of 25% to their haste, yet no one was healing me thus I had to heal myself & actually got kicked out of the group I started since I wouldn't do a lust/haste spell when they wanted me to. proving they all didn't have enough of a haste stat in their armor/weapons to do this raid  w/o my buff.....

please try to make healing in boss raiding or dungeon groups crucial when needed against a world boss, etc.

Thank you for all your hard work & time , creative dreaming too.

Your HellGate loving gamer,

                                       Sobe44
Title: Re: 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes!
Post by: Alternalo on Jul 20, 2017; 10:29 AM
Sydonai health is really low for his position "Final boss" . in global wiki was 3333 , maybe 6000 or 7000 can describe him as the hardest monster... ? :P

He wasn't the final boss in Global, he was like lvl32 or something like this. In London 2038 he is lvl62 with a maximum player level of 50. Now I can not tell an exact number of his health at that level, but the level difference alone make him pretty tough.